Logging arches - the long and short of it

[Jim Timber]

Or rather, a long or short logging arch?

I know there's a zillion threads on making these things, but what I haven't found is the justification for the two schools of thought on them. I'm about to cut metal and start building my own, and am trying to nail down which features make the most sense, without ever having used either one.

A short arch allows the butt to drag, and a long one (usually) raises the whole log.

Raising the whole log makes it easier to pull (less drag), and reduces trail erosion, but also reduces the inherent safety of self braking which potentially means danger to the operator if the log tries to out run the vehicle (an issue on hills).

Dragging the log, even at the very end of it, increases the amount of dirt (potentially) packed into the bark, potentially damages the log from abrasion, and I'd imagine requires more fuel due to increased friction. This may or may not be true in winter with snow pack.

Longer arches need more support, as the load is higher and thus a higher CG and more leverage on the legs. The entire log is also supported by the arch, so there's additional weight not left on the ground as with a short arch.

Now here's where it gets muddy... With the longer arch, you're limited in how tight of quarters you can maneuver if the log is fully elevated and locked to the backbone of the frame. If the load must pivot on the arches axle center line, you're potentially left with a very large turning radius if you have a big stick in tow due to the excessive "tail swing" (like a school bus has). Conversely, with a short arch (one that just lifts the front enough to be pulled), you have the same problem, but slightly different in that you don't have the advantage of the middle axle to rotate about - which means if you do make a sharper turn, you're potentially scrubbing on trees and causing damage.

There's a guy who came up with an arch called the "praying mantis" which is very similar to a design I had come up with independantly, and that allows the arch to grow and shrink as the size of the load varies - I just wonder how necessary that really is in the real world?

It seems to me, the larger the log, the more you'd want it to drag, as that would balance the relationship of easy hauling to operator danger if the load were to overtake the tow rig.

There's also the issue of allowing the log to pivot at the pick-up point. Wouldn't it be more desireable to allow some movement there as long as the tail end was dragging? I'm seeing youtube videos where they're hell bent on lashing the tree to the frame to keep it straight, but anyone who's ever seen a tandem semi trailer knows that middle pivot allows much better navigation of turns.

As you can see, I'm torn between both.

 

[Steve NW WI]

You're way overthinking this, Jim. If you have enough power to skid em, don't bother with an arch. If you don't have enough horse to drag em, get an arch to get the logs up on wheels so ya can tow em.

I've seen some of your other threads on what you're planning. Good layout of skid roads, and a sacrifical "turn tree" or two on sharper corners will let you drag all your trees out quickly and efficiently.

 

[Jim Timber]

I probably am - that's the engineer in me sneaking out. I've had to deal with so many jerry rigged contraptions (my dad and father in law are both horrible engineers), that almost worked great "except..." that I try to avoid the issues up front.

Right now I've got the power, but don't have the traction. My atv is only 1000lbs with me on it, and the 20" 25' oaks just make 4 lovely little holes in the earth instead of moving the tree. Yes, I really shouldn't just hook the tongs to the log where it lay, but it was worth a go. lol I haven't tried skidding anything shorter or smaller, since the down trees are on the other side of a food plot these days.

As things open up, and I'm able to get my road built across the swamp, I'll be able to come in with my truck (detroit locker in the rear, 4wd) and scoot things around better. For now, I need to get some wood moving to raise the money to get that road built. As the swamp freezes, I'll be able to trailer the logs out for further processing and sale.


I'm looking at things from two perspectives: I've got basswood and aspen that are both very light, so I could choker several logs to a turn; well, the aspen anyway - my basswood is over 20" in several trees. And then I've got my oak and maple which are on the heavy end of the spectrum and I won't be handling more than 20' sticks anyway (the trees aren't clear above that). I already have a 3500# winch on the rear of the atv, so I wouldn't have trouble dragging multiple pole/bolt sized aspen under an arch, and then using the winch on the arch to raise them into position.

My landing will be roughly in the middle of the property, so there's 1/4 mile haul out from the ends. My north lot is hilly enough that everything will have to go east first, so that means 1/2-3/4 mile trips. There's only aspen being removed from my steepest grades, so the extra weight of oaks going up hill won't be an issue. Travel corridors are generally pretty flat with one exception on my future driveway, and that hill isn't overly steep (4-5% grade?).

 

[zogger]

Two short independent arches, one for each end of the log, and electric brakes....Then, if you only need one, so be it.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

View attachment 252300View attachment 252298View attachment 252299View attachment 252301I use a '05 Polaris 330 magnum 4x4 atv and Log-Rite fetching arch with the hitch/winch attachment on really flat ground. The atv is small by comparison to most new ones but being older it weighs in at about 500 pounds. I generally cut 13' 8". This is a multiple of 16" that I buck to plus 4". At this length the log can be fully suspended. If you want to cut longer the tail can drag, but (and often very important) then you can not back up if you need to. I prefer to buck up a clean log myself. For large stuff I'll check a log weight chart online and cut shorter to stay within the arches 2,000# limit. I have picked 1800# logs and moved them easily, but I sometimes run the shoulder of a country road for a short ways and they will push you once moving so I just go slow and enjoy the ride.

The log is suspended in the middle by the cable and tongue mounted hand winch. The type of winch is important. Log-Rite uses a two speed with a brake. The brake I use every time I lower a log, big or small. If the handle slips you will never forget it. The cable has a bell for single line use, and a hook and bell for doubling the cable back to the arch. Both get used. The front of the log should have some weight, 40-50 pounds, on it and chained of to the arch to keep from swinging or catching on stuff.

The arch follows very well around turns, trees and such, leaves no log trail, you can back it up, pull more weigh than drag, but in the end it is a small foot print specialty tool to keep from tearing up the land. And, I suspect a View attachment 252179View attachment 252180View attachment 252181very dangerous one going down hills. The attached photos are of a shorter log, probably 8' plus judging from where the chain is up front, from an uprooted double oak. I've posted others photos in past posts.

Log-Rite has some video on youtube with two arches, their Junior Arch tailing longer trunks. I don't have room for that in the woods but it is an option if your selling logs and not making firewood. Hope that is helpful in some way...

 

[Jim Timber]

Your pic links aren't working, but I looked up the posts and saw the "little" logs you were hauling - looks good! Them's some big trunks for sure.

I also revisited log-rite's site and checked out more of their video's. Being able to use the arch independent of the machine is an interesting prospect, but I wonder how well it really works on a log in a gully? The hill sides they showed are gentle compared to some areas on my land.

With my orchard project, I'll be clearing the southern face of a decently steep draw, so as to remove the canopy to it's lowest point and provide max sun to the north ridge where my apple trees will go (it's the high peak of where two slopes converge - perfect for apple trees). I figured I could always winch the machine out if I couldn't pull the hill. I have a 5000lb winch on the front. That area has 36" red oak along that draw. The spring thaw keeps the soil there moist and it grows giants. I've got 16" DBH aspen that's only 35yrs old. If I ever do cut those big oaks, I'll need something bigger to move them. Right now the plan is to leave them be for the critters and plant around their shadows.

Thanks for the discussion guys. It's nice to talk to folks about what they're using and how they like it. I may hold off on making my arch til after the GTG in 2 weeks, or I might have it done before I head north for hunting opener this weekend - hard to say right now. My neck's been a wreck this past week and I don't know what day I'll be lucky enough to wake up feeling better.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I edited the photos of my prior post. Nuzzy, in Allegan, MI has made a few arches and fabricated the chain piece on the neck of my arch. Thank you very much! Really simplifies capturing the front of the log securely. Log-Rite provided a tie-down strap that takes two hands to use and is a poor match for the job. When doubling the cable the lifted log wants to spin because the pulley is forward of the hook and bell, the cable cradle being front to back instead of side to side. The force required to bring a large log inline with the arch, twisting the pivot point as it were, is a lot. The result is single lining to the max, and only double lining when the weight (the winch) requires it or grouping smaller stuff. It is usually far View attachment 252307View attachment 252308View attachment 252302more effective to cut small stuff into rounds and use a trailer. Two photos here are of my brother visiting and playing... What they show however is how tight spaces are pretty easy and the lack of foot print. The 'path' you do see is no more than crushed autumn leaves and not a path at all.

 

[Jim Timber]

I was being facetious when I said "little" - you've got pics of some rather large stuff scattered throughout the site. It's really a testament to the log-rite doing what they claim it will.

I also like the small footprint and minimal damage from lifting the whole log. I have some nasty ruts on my trails just from water and my usage in the spring and early summer when it's wet. I'll need to grade those out once I'm able to remove the boulders (with an arch and a shovel, I might be able to do it by hand).