Looking for Soft Dutchman against the Lean Video

[hseII]

I got it pard. SE WI. I cut 99.9% hardwood.

I know: that's what I'm around the most.

That's a long way from here though. [emoji20]

 

[Bwildered]

I had to let bewildered off my ignore list chain for a few minutes to help answer his questions.

First off dude I don't think you are reading all the words. The tree DOES NOT snap back 180 degrees and fall opposite the lean. Any experienced sawyer knows that. The kerfs and hinge are all intended to move the tree in very small increments just like a wedge does. Any experienced sawyer knows that. The tension wood is cut a little bit at a time as is the hinge. The tension wood is cut low and the sawyer is watching the kerfs close a little as each is cut. The hinge is chased leaving it thicker near the tension wood which is now coming under compression. What I think you are missing completely (and has been stated here) is that the tree is "ROLLING" (weight shifting ever so slowly) toward the lay. The top of the tree is traveling in a slight arc.

Picture a good sawyer sawing lean into the tree this way to swing it 45 degrees, no more. That may help you understand what is happening.

Dudette all you have to do is show us your cuts to get it to fall 180' to the lean..
Fankinski

 

[Bwildered]

Drawings don't have wind, slope, root swells for pull wood, limb wieght, other trees, etc. You also didn't include species of tree and you drew a conifer which I rarely ever cut and nothing of size if I do. Unfortunately I've given you the info visually through video. A picture is worth a thousand words so a video is worth a million. Note the wedge I put in the kerf just to keep it open. Without that I would have lost the tree or at this very least not have been able to saw anything from the back. 2D diagrams don't always equate real world experience. Especially in cutting timber.

You can add in all those frilly bits if it makes you happy, except the wind, but just show us your cuts that can make it happen & fall completely opposite to the lean.
Transki

 

[bitzer]

Wait a minute. I forgot you're down under. Trees fall the opposite way down there. Kind of like your toilets flush counter clockwise.

 

[2dogs]

I have never made a tree fall 180 degrees from it lean. The best I've done is a little more than 90, like maybe 120 degrees. I don't have the skill needed and nowadays I fall mostly dead or sick trees. I don't think a dead or brittle tree with sap in the butt will be able to be steered anything like the tree in the video.

95% 0f the time I use some form of a Humboldt.

 

[northmanlogging]

SlowP posted a vid years ago a couple fellers walked a tree 180, they used wedges, but it was mostly from cutting, saw a little let it sag, saw a little more etc until it worked its way around to where they wanted it.

 

[Skeans]

SlowP posted a vid years ago a couple fellers walked a tree 180, they used wedges, but it was mostly from cutting, saw a little let it sag, saw a little more etc until it worked its way around to where they wanted it.

It's all about timing and size as well as the place you're in plus the quality, are you going to swing a big long pole like an export log tree?

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[northmanlogging]

swing export sticks on the regular, just not my first choice with em. Its all about keeping things away from the high value targets and where my little skidder can still get to em.

 

[Skeans]

swing export sticks on the regular, just not my first choice with em. Its all about keeping things away from the high value targets and where my little skidder can still get to em.

You know what I'm saying would you swing a pole though?

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[northmanlogging]

A telephone pole? Probably not, but then I probably wouldn't need to, the pole trees tend to grow pretty straight without much lean, if they do lean you try to go with the lean, otherwise you wan't to be very accurate with a pole tree, give er a nice soft landing, which is harder then it looks.

 

[Skeans]

A telephone pole? Probably not, but then I probably wouldn't need to, the pole trees tend to grow pretty straight without much lean, if they do lean you try to go with the lean, otherwise you wan't to be very accurate with a pole tree, give er a nice soft landing, which is harder then it looks.

I've done poles with poles with hook in the butts over 125 feet long you can swing them but most times it's a jack job to save your butt.

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[Bwildered]

Wait a minute. I forgot you're down under. Trees fall the opposite way down there. Kind of like your toilets flush counter clockwise.

And the crows fly backwards to keep the dust out of their eyes.
Still in the dark about the legendary soft Dutchman trickery though.
Thansk

 

[northmanlogging]

And the crows fly backwards to keep the dust out of their eyes.
Still in the dark about the legendary soft Dutchman trickery though.
Thansk

Look if you don't get it by now you never will, try it, it does work. Otherwise come up with something productive cause otherwise yer just kind of annoying and not worth the time it takes to give a ****.

 

[Bwildered]

Look if you don't get it by now you never will, try it, it does work. Otherwise come up with something productive cause otherwise yer just kind of annoying and not worth the time it takes to give a ****.

It's still adding up to a load of rubbish & not one of you can explain it, even with a supplied diagram to get you started.
No need to throw a tantrum, just come up with simple explanations of how it can mechanically happen, some videos of saw cuts closing on the compression side of the butt of the tree only shows that it only fell within the range of the lean direction.
Thanski

 

[bnmc98]

Its like a spiral staircase. Each step is a cut (only you don't use as many cuts as there are stairs on one) As the tree compresses on the first stair it is forced by gravity toward the second cut and collapses the kerfs in a uniform way around the staircase. your holding wood is in the back where you are cutting from and it hinges around that like the pole in the middle of the staircase.
It works.
I use it all the time especially on steep ground where you have an uphill lean to the tree, to get them to lay pointing down so you can slide em out with chokers from up top. tough to get 180 for me but 135 ish is pretty common (green wood)
Might want to trust some of these guys they know what they are talking about.

 

[Bwildered]

Its like a spiral staircase. Each step is a cut (only you don't use as many cuts as there are stairs on one) As the tree compresses on the first stair it is forced by gravity toward the second cut and collapses the kerfs in a uniform way around the staircase. your holding wood is in the back where you are cutting from and it hinges around that like the pole in the middle of the staircase.
It works.
I use it all the time especially on steep ground where you have an uphill lean to the tree, to get them to lay pointing down so you can slide em out with chokers from up top. tough to get 180 for me but 135 ish is pretty common (green wood)
Might want to trust some of these guys. People who don't learn to trust die lonely.

Put pen to paper & show us how its cut & done then, that's each cut showing what the tree does for each cut & how it can move the C of G to the opposite side of the stump, changing the tension wood on the high side of the lean into compression wood. Trusting just the say from some unknowns on an outlawed falling method sounds like a good recipe for disaster.
Tranks

 

[bnmc98]

Put pen to paper & show us how its cut & done then, that's each cut showing what the tree does for each cut & how it can move the C of G to the opposite side of the stump, changing the tension wood on the high side of the lean into compression wood. Trusting just the say from some unknowns on an outlawed falling method sounds like a good recipe for disaster.
Tranks

Its not "US". Its "You"
"You" wanted the explanation
We already know how to do it.
I owe you nothing
If you really wanted to know how to do it, you would do like the rest of the world and experiment with what you have been told and figure it out on your own.
Or you could fly up here and I can mentor you for $100 an hour.

 

[rwoods]

bnmc98,

I wasted too much of my life arguing about this before with my friend from downunder so I will not join in again beyond suggesting that he buy a box of dominoes and experiment with incremental falling - "defying" gravity in elevation and direction. He knows that as an object moves so does its center of gravity. Bwildered is plenty smart. I believe he is just pulling some chains here to watch one's COG change.

Ron

 

[Bwildered]

Its not "US". Its "You"
"You" wanted the explanation
We already know how to do it.
I owe you nothing
If you really wanted to know how to do it, you would do like the rest of the world and experiment with what you have been told and figure it out on your own.
Or you could fly up here and I can mentor you for $100 an hour.

If you can't sensibly explain your case, there's no need to rabbit on about it with everything except what has been asked for.
thansk

 

[Bwildered]

bnmc98,

I wasted too much of my life arguing about this before with my friend from downunder so I will not join in again beyond suggesting that he buy a box of dominoes and experiment with incremental falling - "defying" gravity in elevation and direction. He knows that as an object moves so does its center of gravity. Bwildered is plenty smart. I believe he is just pulling some chains here to watch one's COG change.

Ron

I wouldn't say I was that clever, just clever enough to know the difference between magic & reality.
Tanks