McCulloch 895 in a ProCut Mill

[ProfessorGT]

Okay, while I am a "Newbie" at this milling "Hobby", I've decided my approach will be to start with an Alaskan Mini Mill plus a 36" Mark III Alaskan mill.

I've had a 605 with a 20" bar for about 10 years now and I love it. It's certainly not the saw I need for the Mini Mill (not enough power), but the 895 I have, well that one is a great powerhouse, and more than enough for the 36" Alaskan mill.

I'm looking for at least an 80cc Mac for the Mini Mill, and will put my 895 in the 36" mill. This will allow me to get started making lumber for my dream workshop, and then my plan is to build a ProCut mill to move the 895 into as things progress.

I know there must be some Salt-of-the-Earth "Macsters" out there, so let's hear from you guys on the following:

I've been told (just yesterday from a Granberg employee) that the Mac 895 is the type of saw the Alaskan Mills were designed for. He said to stay with the 404 chain size (but use ripping chain of course) as the gear reduction, coupled with the 103cc engine has all the grunt I'll ever need to cut like crazy with no problems.

Another fellow (Allan Cornes - the proprietor of ProCut) says he has no experience with the Macs, but was not sure the gear reduction unit would get proper lubrication working with the saw mounted in the mill on its side. He also recommended going to a 3/8 chain, but was not sure I'd be able to get a 3/8 drive sprocket to fit the saw.

Now I've been in the automotive business as a factory rep/field engineer/training instructor for 27 years, and I've seen my share of engineering shortcomings, but I'd be real surprised if the McCulloch engineers did not plan on making the saw able to run on its side, with respect to adequate gearbox lubrication. It just doesn't make good sense to me, but hey, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, if there was in fact some sort of inherent issue with these units.

So, is this 895 saw a good choice for a mobile Alaskan, or stationary ProCut style mill, or what?

What are all you die-hard McCulloch purists thinking on this one?

 

[mtngun]

What are all you die-hard McCulloch purists thinking on this one?

I don't know of any die-hard McCulloch fans using their old saws for milling. If it breaks, can you get parts ?

Regarding the oiler, it doesn't matter, because you'll be using an auxiliary oiler anyway, and the auxiliary oiler does 90% of the work. Yes, you'll want an aux with a 36" bar. No matter how much oil the saw pumps out, most of it gets flung off at the nose before it reaches the cut. The aux puts the oil where it does the most good.

An Alaskan works well for slabs, not so well for timbers.

My preferred process for making timbers is to make the initial cut with an Alaskan, then cut the other 3 sides with the mini-mill. You'll understand why after you've tried it.

I'm not a big fan of pro-cut type mills, but I guess they do have their place. My thinking is that, if you can build a pro-cut, then you can build a bandmill, and a bandmill will cut circles around any chainsaw mill.

Other than timbers, what kind of lumber do you plan to cut ?

I see you are in the NE. What species and size of trees do you have ?

I use a chainsaw mill for legal reasons having to do with the regulations on public lands. If I had my own timber, I'd build or buy a bandmill. Much faster, and less maintenance. Chainsaw mills are SLOOOOOW, and chainsaws are high maintenance.

 

[BobL]

You won't find many old mac users milling with their big mac saws on this forum. Not because they're not good saws for milling but there are many newer CSs that are as good or better and you won't struggle to find parts for etc.

They work fine on their side - they have to - to be able to perform the back cut when falling big trees.

If I had an 895, I'd polish it up and keep it on the shelf and bring it out to cut a few cookies occasionally, and maybe to wake up the neighbors early in the morning after their all night parties.

 

[rarefish383]

Yeah Bob, wake em up. There's a dedicated Mac thread in the chainsaw forum.
They might not be into milling per say, but they do have some big ones and like to run them. I know they'd like to see some pics of yours, Joe.

 

[ProfessorGT]

CSM VS BSM - Sounding More like Ford VS Chevy every Day!

Well, being totally new to this, I'm trying to differentiate the fly poop from the pepper, and it's getting harder by the minute.

Some say that if you are going through the trouble of building a mill, you might as well make it a BSM, and forget about making it a CSM, other than using the Alaskan Type CSMs.

I was almost ready to say "Uncle" when I read this info from Allan at ProCut.

Yea, one must realize that he's selling CSM plans and parts, but he addresses that in his comments!

I'm confused!

Here's a copy of his web site post:



"BANDMILLS
I am sure you have looked at bandsaw mills as a sawmill of choice, probably due to the sheer quantity of these type of sawmills on the market today, but there are several things you should consider before making a choice.

Bandsaw mills are a very good sawmill without doubt, but only in the higher price range. This is due to the size of the engine driving the band. On higher end band sawmills with 20 h.p. or over you can install a much wider and slightly thicker band blade therefore allowing higher tension ( tighter ) which will then cut lumber more precisely, smoother, with less wavy lumber. The problem is who can afford to have a high priced band sawmill just to cut there own trees, as you could just take all that money and go and buy the lumber you need to build just about anything you want to.

In the lower end price of band sawmills the drive engine is usually 12 to 15 h.p., the band wheels are narrower (due to cost) and therefore the band blade is narrower and thinner. It still cuts fast lumber but the problem here is because of the tension on the bandblade which is not as high as the wider blades on the higher priced band sawmills, you will get wavy lumber or washboard lumber.

As the narrower band blade with less tension encounters a knot it will have a tendancy to ride up and over the knot, also depending on what species of wood you are milling, the growth rings of the log can have hard and soft spots between each ring, and again the band blade can ride up and down, creating wavy lumber. This means you would have to run all that lumber you have produced through a planer, increasing time and cost.

It will also be necessary that you have at least 5 to 8 extra band blades for a days cutting as you can easily go through this many as they will get dull, depending on the species of wood you are cutting, and especially in dirty wood. These band blades then have to be sharpened by a shop, or you will have to purchase a band blade sharpener and a tooth setter for the band blade teeth. THIS CAN EASILY COST OVER $1000.

Others may tell you that a bandsaw mill is better. A bandsaw mill utilizes more of the log due to the blade kerf (kerf: the amount of wood removed out of the log by the thickness of the blade) as the cutting band is very thin. Although this is true, it is not the whole story. A bandsaw mill blade needs sharpening frequently, and if it hit a small rock or some sand in the log, then you have to stop, back out the mill and change the band. Logs are not clean, there is always a certain amount of abrasive material or small stones etc. in the log and certainly a fair amount of pitch, which is a big problem for band mill blades. The blade is so thin and the tooth set is very narrow (tooth set gives clearance for the blade) when pitch adheres to the band itself, the band blade gets thicker and the tooth set no longer gives the band clearance, so it then binds in the cut.

If this does not slow you down then the actual maintenance of the mill certainly will. Just imagine how many extra bands you would have to purchase to finish just one day of cutting. When do these bands get cleaned of pitch and sharpened? During the day slowing you down, or in the evening after a long day cutting. Do you want to cut lumber, or maintain a mill?


Yes, I agree, you certainly do get more out of a log in lumber with a band mill, but at what cost to you in time and frustration. Unless you are cutting very exotic wood and need every piece of lumber out of the log. A bandsaw mill does not justify the very large extra expense and the large amount of maintenance needed. If you take the lowest cost mobile band mill in North America at $3,900.00, add on all the extra equipment you need to match Procut you would have to spend closer to $6,000.00. I have had people come to me locally to see my ready made mills. THEY SEE HOW EASY IT IS TO OPERATE AND HAVE SOLD THE BANDSAW MILL THEY PURCHASED TO BUILD MY PROCUT SAWMILL.


So enough about bandsaw mills. With 20 years experience of using many different sawmills, I can honestly say my Procut is the least expensive sawmill in the world today AND THE ONLY MILL THAT CAN CONVERT INTO A 20 FOOT TRAILER. Procut is simple and very effective, it cuts lumber hour after hour with only a bit of chainsaw gas and oil, while sharpening of the cutting chain takes a minimum amount of time with a $1.00 file."




So now you see my conundrum! This makes a darn good arguement for sticking with a CSM, so what to do? .................

Let the games begin! :beat-up:

 

[betterbuilt]

I guess a good place to start is "What do you need a mill for?".

Slabs, Boards?

How much lumber do you plan to mill?

Is this something your gonna do everyday or occasionally?

 

[ProfessorGT]

I guess a good place to start is "What do you need a mill for?".

Slabs, Boards?

How much lumber do you plan to mill?

Is this something your gonna do everyday or occasionally?

Betterbuilt,

I want to build a pole barn style workshop, and then see where it goes from there. Wouldn't mind milling lumber for others for profit if I could, but moreso for my own needs/projects, with the hope that I can build upon the basics as I progress. I love the outdoors, woodworking, felling, bucking and splitting wood, so this is just a natural progression to fulfill the addiction! :mad-tongue:

 

[betterbuilt]

Betterbuilt,

I want to build a pole barn style workshop, and then see where it goes from there. Wouldn't mind milling lumber for others for profit if I could, but moreso for my own needs/projects, with the hope that I can build upon the basics as I progress. I love the outdoors, woodworking, felling, bucking and splitting wood, so this is just a natural progression to fulfill the addiction! :mad-tongue:

I mostly mill wide slabs. I can't imagine milling the lumber to build a building. I guess I'm lazy and I hire a portable bandmill to come to my house and mill all my smaller logs. If I could justify it I'd buy a bandmill just to have it around. The problem I have is there are so many around here, I really don't need one. Milling is pretty hard on a saw and you should be sure to have parts for just about anything that can break. It's funny how a $2 dollar part can hold you up for a few weeks.

Did you see Gene's plans on how to build a bandmill?

 

[BobL]

. . . . I Wouldn't mind milling lumber for others for profit . . . . .

I'm a die hard CSM fan/user but I can't see how anyone could mill lumber with a CSM for profit on a consistent basis.

CSM has and advantage in that it enables occasional operators to access small volumes of lumber from zero cost trees in awkward locations, at low cost. As soon as the logs cost money, volume is needed, access is adequate, and time is an issue, then just about any mill that does not use a CS will be more productive / cost efficient.

 

[mtngun]

The Pro-Cut guy's bandmill bashing is just BS. Someone is trying to sell you something.

Chainsaw mills have their place. To cut wide slabs that won't fit in a bandmill. To mill the log where it falls. To get into the milling game for not a lot of money (assuming you already have a suitable saw).

But if you are serious about making lumber, a bandmill gets the nod.

Getting back to your milling plans -- what species and size of logs do you have ? If you want to mill timbers out of small diameter logs, a mini-mill is a very viable option. Compared to a pro-cut, it'll take a few more minutes to set up the initial cut, and you'll be showered with sawdust, but it gets the job done for not a lot of money.

If you have monster logs that won't fit on a bandmill, there's a lot to be said for an Alaskan.

A lot of guys on this forum have started out with a chainsaw mill or two and later graduated to a bandmill. There is nothing wrong with that -- a CSM is a cheap way to test the waters. You'll learn a lot about the art of sawyering, how to assess a log, how to cut for the best lumber, how to store and dry lumber, etc..

 

[ProfessorGT]

Did you see Gene's plans on how to build a bandmill?

No, so where can I find them? Please point me to them.

Thanks for the great feedback.:good:

 

[mtngun]

One of Gene's bandmill threads

 

[ProfessorGT]

Gene's Mill Thread

One of Gene's bandmill threads

The link seems to be broken. Help!

 

[rarefish383]

Pro gt, I just bumped one of genes threads to the top, it's "small bandsaw mill" started by gene1605, Joe.

 

[ProfessorGT]

Pro gt, I just bumped one of genes threads to the top, it's "small bandsaw mill" started by gene1605, Joe.

Thanks, will check it out!