Milling Black Walnut?

[Ollbuster]

I have a black walnut log a friend has asked me to turn into gun stock blanks. My question is flatsawn, quarter sawn which would give me the best figure. I know on the white Oak I normally mill quarter sawn is the way to go.

Any help would be appreciated as I would hate to turn my buddys log into firewood. Great forum bye the way, I have already improved my set up just bye reading posts now hope to learn more bye asking a few questions.

Thanks in advance for any info...

 

[timberwolf]

I think it may be more importaint to look at the strength issue, if a gun stock is cut on edge grain it would be very susseptible to breaking in the grip area. Better go with flat sawn grain.

There is no heavy ray flecking like in oak to speak of in walnut, it is much finer almost a speckled pattern.

 

[aquan8tor]

One thing I've found with walnut so far (I've onlymilled maybe a couple hundred BF so far, if that much), is that you don't want to get the sawdust on your skin, or breathe the dust. Some people are more succeptible than others, but especially with exposed skin, and sweaty skin, there is a prounounced contact dermatitis----skin irritation and itching--, similar to a reaction with poison oak or poison ivy. I actually have also taken oral steroids--prednisone, for my reaction to the Juglone toxin found in black walnut. HTH. Its cold now anyway, but after my first experience, I wore a long sleeve shirt, a respirator--(I've always worn this), and a pair of Ski goggles that completely close off your eyes from the outside by a very fine mesh fabric. I had to coat the inside of it with anti-fog treatment to keep my sweat from clouding the lens, but it was worth it to not have to take my contact lenses out & put liberal quantities of Visine in my eyes afterwards.
I'm a newbie to this as well, but my experience was pretty strongly negative before I found out other people have similar reactions; some mild, some severe.

That said, have fun, and be safe. walnut is my very favorite wood.

 

[Trigger-Time]

One thing I've found with walnut so far (I've onlymilled maybe a couple hundred BF so far, if that much), is that you don't want to get the sawdust on your skin, or breathe the dust. Some people are more succeptible than others, but especially with exposed skin, and sweaty skin, there is a prounounced contact dermatitis----skin irritation and itching--, similar to a reaction with poison oak or poison ivy. I actually have also taken oral steroids--prednisone, for my reaction to the Juglone toxin found in black walnut. HTH. Its cold now anyway, but after my first experience, I wore a long sleeve shirt, a respirator--(I've always worn this), and a pair of Ski goggles that completely close off your eyes from the outside by a very fine mesh fabric. I had to coat the inside of it with anti-fog treatment to keep my sweat from clouding the lens, but it was worth it to not have to take my contact lenses out & put liberal quantities of Visine in my eyes afterwards.
I'm a newbie to this as well, but my experience was pretty strongly negative before I found out other people have similar reactions; some mild, some severe.

That said, have fun, and be safe. walnut is my very favorite wood.

Do you only have this trouble with wet (green) walnut?

 

[aquan8tor]

Honestly I haven't milled anything dry. I've read that the toxin stays in wood for some time after drying, and even in old roots. I know that nothing will grow nearby even many years after a walnut tree dies or is cut down from the juglone in the rootwood still underground.

 

[aquan8tor]

Here's a list that I found of wood toxicity after my first reaction. I definitely had a pretty severe reaction---blistering, redness, swelling, and ITCHING!

I think the ++ means it is very potent. It says wood and dust cause a reaction, and that it is common. I have a friend who's an arborist that says the same thing happens to him, but with less itching. I forgot to mention that I also had really bad staining of the skin. I looked like I had dirty hands and arms for weeks afterwards. NO exaggeration. 2-3 weeks.




List of Woods Toxic to Man
The following chart appeared in American Woodturner, June 1990,
Originally posted to rec.woodworking by Bruce Taylor [email protected]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wood Reaction 1) Site 1) Potency Source 1) Incidence 1)

Bald Cypress S R + D R
Balsam Fir S E, S + LB C
Beech S, C E, S, R ++ LB, D C
Birch S R ++ W, D C
Black Locust I, N E, S +++ LB C
Blackwood S E, S ++ W, D C
Boxwood S E, S ++ W, D C
Cashew S E,S + W,D R
Cocobolo I,S E,S,R +++ W,D C
Dahoma I E,S ++ W,D C
Ebony I,S E,S ++ W,D C
Elm I E,S + D R
Goncalo Alves S E,S ++ W,D R
Greenheart S E,S +++ W,D C
Hemlock C R ? D U
Iroko I,S,P E,S,R +++ W,D C
Mahogany S,P S,R + D U
Mansonia I,S E,S +++ W,D C
Mansonia N + D
Maple (Spalted) S,P R +++ D C
Mimosa N ? LB U
Myrtle S R ++ LB,D C
Oak S E,S ++ LB,D R
Oak C ? D U
Obeche I,S E,S,R +++ W,D C
Oleander DT N,C ++++ D,W,LB C
Olivewood I,S E,S,R +++ W,D C
Opepe S R + D R
Padauk S E,S,R + W,D R
Pau Ferro S E,S + W,D R
Peroba Rosa I R,N ++ W,D U
Purpleheart N ++ W,D C
Quebracho I R,N ++ LB,D C
Quebracho C ? D U
Redwood S,P E,S,R ++ D R
Redwood C ? D U
Rosewoods I,S E,S,R ++++ W,D U
Satinwood I E,S,R +++ W,D C
Sassafras S R + D C
Sassafras DT N + D,W,LB R
Sassafras C ? D U
Sequoia I R + D R
Snakewood I R ++ W,D R
Spruce S R + W,D R
Walnut, Black S E,S ++ W,D C
Wenge S E,S,R + W,D C
Willow S R,N + D,W,LB U
West. Red Cedar S R +++ D,LB C
Teak S, P E,S,R ++ D C
Yew I E,S ++ D C
Yew DT N,C ++++ W,D C
Zebrawood S E,S ++ W,D



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1)
Reaction: Site: Source: Incidence:
I - irritant S - skin D - dust R - rare
S - sensitizer E - eyes LB - leaves,bark C - common
C - nasopharyngeal cancer R - respiratory W - wood U - uncommon
P - pheumonitis, alveolitis C - cardiac
DT - direct toxin
N - nausea, malaise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reference:
1. Woods Toxic to Man, author unknown
2. Woods, B., Calnan, C.D., "Toxic Woods." Br. Journal of Dermatology 1976
3. ILO Encyclopedia of Occupational Health and Safety 1983
4. Lame, K., McAnn, M., AMA Handbook of Poisonous and Injurious Plants, AMA 1985
5. Poisondex, Micromedix Inc. 1990




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Back to the P. Horacek's Home Page]

[Back to the UNoD Home Page]

 

[Doctor Dave]

I've heard that gunstocks are often cut from the buttswell, to take advantage of the curved grain so that very little endgrain is exposed in the tapered sections of the stock. It may be that the log isn't suited for stocks. You might want to see if the stump is available.

 

[hautions11]

I have worked with walnut in the shop A LOT! Built all of these kitchen cabinets without any issues.

I had a friend help one day and after an hour in the shop his eyes were watering, sneezing etc. Even using the dust collector while sanding etc.. it bothered him a lot. I guess my system is very tolerant to the toxicity. I also have 12 walnut trees in my yard and the grass, impatients in beds around the trees and everything else grows fine. I have heard the won't grow under walnuts as well, but I don't believe it.


Check out the burl on this one.

Middle of a lawn area.

As far as stocks go, I have a friend that carves them and regular logs are OK, but the wild grain in the base/root area or around limbs gives you the cool grain and the blending from butt to trigger area that people like to see.

 

[woodshop]

I too fortunately can work walnut, dust and all in my shop with no issues, but do know of other woodworkers that can't. Same with redcedar. Some folks just can't tolerate it. As for things growing under walnut trees. Depends on lots of other variables. Many flower beds do fine under walnuts, even some gardens because the toxins are down in the root system of the tree, and mostly out towards the outside circumference of the tree line. Garden plants often don't get that far down. Although walnut leaves and fruit can also kill some plants.
However, I can tell you from personal experience in my own yard though, there is truth to the walnuts killing other trees around it deal. When we planted a row of evergreens along a fence that also had a huge walnut along it at one point, all of the small trees did well for the first 2-3 years till the roots started to grow down deeper into the soil, and thus mix with the walnut roots. It was almost comical to see beautiful healthy evergreens all doing well in a row EXCEPT for the few that were either side of the walnut tree. Stunted, and eventually all but one died. That one that did not die looked so pathetic that we eventually took it down also.

 

[Forest Steward]

Sometimes you can't see the worst effects of the walnut dust. I've heard a lot of guys talking about respiratory problems with prolonged exposure. My buddy does a lot of chainsaw carvings with walnut and won't go anywhere without his respirator.

We just finished cutting a small woodlot for a guy that was about 95% walnut. He had one logger try to get him to dig up the stumps so he could sell them to gun stock makers. Some guys would even buy the crotches for that same purpose. Basically if it's considered a shape defect to a lumber guy, that's the stuff you want for your specialty guys.

By the way, what dimensions are you planning on sawing the blanks into? The way I figure is that if you had a 6X6 blank, depending on where you cut into that log to square it up, you can have various combinations of sides being either quarter sawn or flat sawn. I wish I could draw out what I'm thinking, but I'm not that skilled with computer programs. But just draw a bunch of circles inside a bigger circle (i.e. the butt end of a log with growth rings). Then start drawing squares in different areas of that log and see what patterns you get (growth rings perpendicular to cant surface=quarter sawn and growth rings parallel with cant surface=flat sawn). From there the you can give him some options to decide which patterning he wants. Give it a go and see if you get anything out of that or I'm just imagining things. I'd believe either one.

 

[Ollbuster]

Thanks for all the info luckily I am also not allergic to walnut, altough I still take precautions. Forest that is a good suggestion about making a square block which has different grain on differnt sides I think that is the way I'll go. Beautiful cabnites Hautions...