MS650 won't start after BB kit

[kraftyHD]

My dealer talked me into a MS650 two years ago, based on reports that the MS660 was having internal engine problems..so I bought one. Ever since, I've wanted a 660. Recently, I decided to put a Woodland BB kit and dual port muffler cover on. I am admittedly a beginner to working on chainsaws, although am very mechanically inclined.

I completed the installation of the BB kit and reassembled the saw without any major complications or issues. The saw was, of course, running when I took it apart. After reassembly, the saw will not start, or even fire with the choke on.

I have inspected the entire assembly, and can see no readily apparent problems. I did remove the plug and the plug did not appear wet with fuel...

 

[harrygrey382]

My dealer talked me into a MS650 two years ago, based on reports that the MS660 was having internal engine problems..so I bought one. Ever since, I've wanted a 660. Recently, I decided to put a Woodland BB kit and dual port muffler cover on. I am admittedly a beginner to working on chainsaws, although am very mechanically inclined.

I completed the installation of the BB kit and reassembled the saw without any major complications or issues. The saw was, of course, running when I took it apart. After reassembly, the saw will not start, or even fire with the choke on.

I have inspected the entire assembly, and can see no readily apparent problems. I did remove the plug and the plug did not appear wet with fuel...

how many times did you pull over? Have you double checked it's sparking? Assuming you put it togather with neat 2-stroke oil, how much did you put in? One time I got rather liberal with it and the (056) wouldn't start. Tipped a thimble of fuel down the carby and it started up, VERY smokey then settled down. Have you tried that? What's compression like?

 

[blsnelling]

Are you sure the impulse hose is still connected?

 

[Tree Sling'r]

Did you mess with the coil at all, may be off if so. Is your impulse line intact? Try a different spark plug too.

 

[Jacob J.]

How far did you take the fuel system apart when you were installing the BB kit? If this was a relatively new saw, sounds like impulse may be the issue. Did you notch the case for the BB piston? You may have nicked the back of the brass impulse tube.

The 660 has never had 'internal engine problems'. Your dealer is full of s***.

 

[kraftyHD]

The impulse line is connected. I used very small amout of 2 stroke oil to reassemble.

I did not completely disassemble the fuel system. All electrical connections are secure.

I did not notch the case...I researched this forum before performing the modification and didn't see anything about that.

I did use a stock Stihl MS660 gasket, not the Baileys kit, since it was b/o'ed.

It appears that this is over my skill ability and knowledge level. I will take it to the dealer to check out before I cause any larger problems.

The hard thing to understand is that the disassembly and reassembly were simple and uneventful. Everything went together just like it came apart, so I assumed the saw would just start up.

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[Jacob J.]

I'm not saying this is the case on your saw, but every 650/660 that I've put one of the new generation BB kits on has needed the case notched. The stock gasket will clear the piston either. Don't try to start it now, you're likely to cause serious damage to your new parts. There's plenty of people here on this forum that will help you get this straightened out.

 

[kraftyHD]

Yes, the dealer is full of S**T. He told me that MS660's were siezing the pistons due to too tight of tolerances. I was somewhat uneducated on the purchase and trusted him when he steared me towards the 650 in 2007.

I also think he wanted to move the 650 he had sitting there, knowing it was a dog.

I've regretted the purchase ever since, primariliy due to my not doing my homework; although the 650 has been a fine saw, it lacks power in large hardwood with a 32" bar and sharp RSC chaing.

 

[Jacob J.]

Stihl ran a special on the 650's last year and a bunch of dealers got caught up in it and ordered many units. Since that time I've been hearing all sorts of stories about how dealers have talked people into buying 650s.

That being said, I think you need to look at having someone reputable help you with your 650 BB conversion. From the sounds of it, your local dealer isn't trustworthy.

 

[kraftyHD]

Thank you Jacob.

I understand, I will not turn it over again.

Can you please point in the right direction where I can research someone to send the saw to? I would like to have it checked out, reassembled and ported while its apart again.

I'll just send it off, and have someone that is qualified work on, because I apparently am not!

I though this was just a "bolt on and reassemble kit"...

 

[Wet1]

Where are you located?

 

[Jacob J.]

Thank you Jacob.

I understand, I will not turn it over again.

Can you please point in the right direction where I can research someone to send the saw to? I would like to have it checked out, reassembled and ported while its apart again.

I'll just send it off, and have someone that is qualified work on, because I apparently am not!

I though this was just a "bolt on and reassemble kit"...

The kits are supposed to be 'bolt on and go'. Like I said, I've installed about 20 of them and so far, the BB piston won't clear the stock gasket or the case on the 650/660. They shortened the skirts on the BB piston to clear the case but that didn't solve the problem. I know of one individual, one of our sponsors, who does excellent work- but he may not be willing to work with BB kit.

 

[stihlboy]

Thank you Jacob.

I understand, I will not turn it over again.

Can you please point in the right direction where I can research someone to send the saw to? I would like to have it checked out, reassembled and ported while its apart again.

I'll just send it off, and have someone that is qualified work on, because I apparently am not!

I though this was just a "bolt on and reassemble kit"...

post #3 is one of your best bets he knows saws pretty darn well of course there are others but i trust brad with any of my saws

 

[kraftyHD]

THank you to all for your replys.

I will continue to learn as much as I can, but at this point I need a professional to help sort out my problem.

I am in Bloomington, IL; so if there is anyone close that would be great.

 

[stihlaficionado]

How far did you take the fuel system apart when you were installing the BB kit? If this was a relatively new saw, sounds like impulse may be the issue. Did you notch the case for the BB piston? You may have nicked the back of the brass impulse tube.

The 660 has never had 'internal engine problems'. Your dealer is full of s***.

I know who this dealer is...He said the same thing to me when I was looking to buy my 660. There are two dealers in Bloomington/Normal. One dealer sells tons of 660's. The other dealer says he "doesn't sell them" because of engine failure. He pushes the MS650.

 

[gink595]

Man before you throw in the towel and pay someone, check that impulse line. I had a 024 I had a bit*h of time tryin to start after rebuilding the carb, I ended up having to put a small line clamp on the impulse line because it wasn't sealing very good, after that it fired right off. It won't hurt to check

 

[excess650]

I'm not saying this is the case on your saw, but every 650/660 that I've put one of the new generation BB kits on has needed the case notched. The stock gasket will clear the piston either. Don't try to start it now, you're likely to cause serious damage to your new parts. There's plenty of people here on this forum that will help you get this straightened out.

Jacob,
Pardon my ignorance here, but why did you need to notch the case? I'm in the process of assembling a 660 from parts with a BB kit. I've had the piston and cylinder on without rings to check squish, and the piston cleared the cases and one of the two base gaskets that I've tried. The thinner of the two Baileys gaskets didn't clear, and the thick one makes the squish .050". I'm waiting for some Stihl parts sourced locally, including base gaskets. The .5mm Stihl 064 base gasket that I do have clears the BB piston skirt, but obviously, the bolt holes are off location.

 

[Jacob J.]

I know who this dealer is...He said the same thing to me when I was looking to buy my 660. There are two dealers in Bloomington/Normal. One dealer sells tons of 660's. The other dealer says he "doesn't sell them" because of engine failure. He pushes the MS650.

That's because his profit margin is higher on the 650 if he's selling them at list as a result of the special pricing Stihl had last year. There's a dealer here doing the same thing.

 

[kraftyHD]

When I bought the 650, there was only one dealer in town. I always try to keep my revenue dollars local, so I didn't go out of town.

Ironically, I've bought all three of my saws there, MS210, MS280, and MS650, as well as my FS130 brushcutter and a blower; and I recently learned that this particular dealer still charges me full retail for any parts. I always "trusted" them.

I recently began patronizing the other local Stihl dealer, and their service and price is superior. In addition, they are the JD dealer, so I can get my JD antique tractor parts there in the same stop for Stihl service and parts!

Too bad they weren't in town when I bought the 650...

 

[blsnelling]

My 066BB fit the case with no mods.