Need a little info on this tree

[STLfirewood]

I took a tree down for a person yesterday and while I was there they wanted me to look at this one and give a price on removal. I took a couple pics of it. The tree has one dead branch on it. It's on the same side and the trunk damage. Because of the driveway, powerlines, houses, and street I think everything needs to be roped. I don't have a strong enough rope. What rope should I use for this tree. Also do you think there is any chance of saving this tree. Please ask any questions you might have or say any comment you might have. Using a crane is out of the question because of price.

Thanks Scott

 

[STLfirewood]

more pics

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

This is the important picture. I would guess (from my chair in Franklin, WI) that this is a hazard tree, at least high risk of failure.

One can safely assume that diveway installation did the damage, and when they replace it in several years, more will be done.

If they are interested in knowing if it can be saved, I would dig in the decay to see how big the pocket is. It looks like a maple, what species?

If the decay is too much, you may want to get someone with a bucket to do it.

As for rigging line, I would have no problem using 1/2 inch stable-braid. You may not want to go real big with this tree anyways.

 

[ddhlakebound]

This is the important picture. I would guess (from my chair in Franklin, WI) that this is a hazard tree, at least high risk of failure.

One can safely assume that diveway installation did the damage, and when they replace it in several years, more will be done.

If they are interested in knowing if it can be saved, I would dig in the decay to see how big the pocket is. It looks like a maple, what species?

If the decay is too much, you may want to get someone with a bucket to do it.

As for rigging line, I would have no problem using 1/2 inch stable-braid. You may not want to go real big with this tree anyways.

Good advice, I was thinking pretty much the same thing, but I don't really feel qualified to play armchair QB with this tree.

What species is it? I was thinking white oak family, but wasn't nearly sure from the pics. How big is it?

My other thought was if you were to have a failure, would you rather it be the rope or the tree? Big rope = more confidence = bigger chunks, on a tree showing some level of strength loss already.

Are you planning on rigging the spar down on itself?

 

[STLfirewood]

My other thought was if you were to have a failure, would you rather it be the rope or the tree? Big rope = more confidence = bigger chunks, on a tree showing some level of strength loss already.

Are you planning on rigging the spar down on itself?

The tree is around 30inches(foot above the ground) and it is an oak. I would rather take more time and rope smaller pieces the to rope bigger stuff. I just want to make sure that when roping the main shaft down that the rope could handle the shock load of a block. I'm not real versed on te technical lingo so by spar I'm assuming you mean the main shaft of the tree. If that is correct the answer is yes I was planning on doing that. I am planning on doing most of the work from a boom. I know it's hard to advise from pics. Thank you for your advise.

Scott

 

[Dadatwins]

I see powerlines in a post and questions like what rope should I use and I get very nervous. Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you might be over your head on this one. Might be good to walk away or hire someone more experienced in this type of situation. Never be afraid to watch and learn. This type work offers very little margin of error, and when error happen they are usually bad. A for the the decay it is hard to
tell how far in the decay is from the puter screen but it does not look so good. be careful

 

[ddhlakebound]

The tree is around 30inches(foot above the ground) and it is an oak. I would rather take more time and rope smaller pieces the to rope bigger stuff. I just want to make sure that when roping the main shaft down that the rope could handle the shock load of a block. I'm not real versed on te technical lingo so by spar I'm assuming you mean the main shaft of the tree. If that is correct the answer is yes I was planning on doing that. I am planning on doing most of the work from a boom. I know it's hard to advise from pics. Thank you for your advise.

Scott

Knowing that you'll be in a bucket most of the time helps alot. I'd do everything possible to avoid shockloading that tree while I was tied in to it.

Knowing how to calculate ft/lbs generated in shock loading is something I've been wanting to understand for quite a while.

White Oak weighs 62 lbs/ft3. Gravity accelarates falling objects at 32 ft/sec.

But I dont know the formula to calculate the ft/lbs generated when a certain weight falls a certain distance.

Perhaps someone versed in the topic will help us both out. Once you've decided how big of blocks you want to lower, you can estimate their weight, and the force generated. (If someone will throw a formula out for us...) Be sure to remember to consider every link in the chain, and keep yourself a sizeable saftey margin. Like 10-1.

 

[ddhlakebound]

I see powerlines in a post and questions like what rope should I use and I get very nervous. Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you might be over your head on this one. Might be good to walk away or hire someone more experienced in this type of situation. Never be afraid to watch and learn. This type work offers very little margin of error, and when error happen they are usually bad. A for the the decay it is hard to
tell how far in the decay is from the puter screen but it does not look so good. be careful

Thats a VERY good point.....

How far away are the powerlines, and where are they in relation to the tree's lean? Any part of the tree overhanging them?

 

[clearance]

I would not lower that much, rain it down, use branches to protect the driveway, push the blocks onto the lawn, fall as big butt log as room allows. Tell the customer, "a few dents in your lawn, or way more money, your choice" If given the choice, most people go for this, I often hear if they knew the guy was going to be there so long for that much money they would have rather fixed up thier lawn. At least ask, I hate being there any longer than I need to be. I know some people like to take every last dime they can, I try and give the customer the best bang for thier buck. Above all else, watch out for the powerlines. Good luck, Jim

 

[STLfirewood]

I'm not as worried about the lines. They are on the out skirts of the tree canopy. They will be pretty easy with the bucket. The person Have working in the boom for me has a lot of experience. Usually I will drop the blocks and repair the yard like you have suggested. The problem with this job it the street and driveway. I don't want to bust the asphalt. That is why I was asking about the rope size. I want to make sure have a rope that can handle the weight. I want to try and avoid anything that could happen. That is why i posted picture before I do the job. I want to cover my bases as much as possible. Thanks Scott

 

[clearance]

If you are using a boom you can take smaller pieces, what kind of wieght are you thinking of? Why? That curb and road can take quite a beating, especially when you have put branches there to take it first. The guy running the boom will know what he can get away with.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

On this tree I do not think shock load on the rope would be as big an issue as the rotten butt section of the tree. I'm with chunking onto a brush cushion here (almost anywhere for that matter). It may make a little more work with the brush at the end, but it saves on the restoration.

I know some people like to take every last dime they can, I try and give the customer the best bang for thier buck.

I think that is a misinterpretation of motive, one does not keep clients if they go that route. I offer options, sometimes "Cut & Carry" is the way well to do people want it done, they do not want to wait for restoration, they want it looking good when you are done.

"$XXXX for clean, low impact job. We will restore damage to turf. Cost reductions available for client taking on aspects of the cleanup and restoration".

 

[Spockbob]

It looks like the asphalt directly under the tree is bad anyway. I'd ask for permission to drop in a 10X10 area under the tree.

 

[boynature]

Lookes like northern red or black oak to me, definetly in the red oak family though.

Natboy

 

[RedlineIt]

use branches to protect the driveway,

(clearance)

That curb and road can take quite a beating, especially when you have put branches there to take it first.

(clearance)

I'm with chunking onto a brush cushion here (almost anywhere for that matter). It may make a little more work with the brush at the end, but it saves on the restoration.

(J P Sandborn)

Absolutely. Common enough around here that we call it "Laying eggs in the nest."

Have your groundies build the nest crosshatch style, and keep some brush aside to "feather the nest" as it starts to get thin. Groundies should move in and remove each block as climber or bucketman repositions and starts next cut. Too big of a mountain of blocks and they'll bounce off each other and go anywhere. Climber or bucketman must respect this and NOT lay an egg on the groundies!

If you do this more than once, you will likely buy yourself a nice light aluminium scoop shovel and big debris bucket to speed your clean up, lots and lots of tiny busted bits left over, but it's on asphalt/ contrete, right?, so it goes pretty quick.

If it's the lawn I'm going to bomb, and irrigation lines are not an issue, I'd rather have branch disposal done quickly as the removal procedes and do a little top-dress / over-seed lawn repair if the client is OK with that. Dismantling a well made and pulverised "nest" will eat up some time, but it's a good technique when you need it.

Good luck!


RedlineIt

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Lookes like northern red or black oak to me, definetly in the red oak family though.

Natboy

That's what I thought at first, with the bark, but the leaves did not look right on my screen

 

[oldugly]

I do not like shock loading any type of decayed tree...especially oaks. Whites, burs, and swamps will give you a little flex, but reds, blacks, pins, and rocks will not flex at all. Once overloaded they snap..especially if there is vascular dessication at all in the wood. The decay at the base may or may not be a sign that there is any drying out in the wood, but the fact that the crown looks healthy is not a sign that there isn't. Meaning that just because the crown is green does not mean that wood is not dried out, or even more brittle than it would be normally.
Your hard oaks...Reds, Pins, Blacks, etc. are strong trees, but somewhat like glass. IF you do not, or cannot get approval from the customer for using a brush nest...use a sliding rope technique in lowering your limbs.. Have your groundmen slow the missle down, but not stop it, They should be able to place it on the ground with virtually no impact, yet never put the entire shockload on the tree itself.
As quoted before, the nest is the best way to go...just trying to give another option. Half wraps instead of full, and smart groundmen could make this job easy...stupid groundsmen, and lazy ones could hurt you imensely, and your reputation with your customer.
1/2 inch stable braid will give you more than plenty strength.

 

[Stihl Guy]

Tree down yet? :notrolls2:

 

[outdoor images]

I do not like shock loading any type of decayed tree...especially oaks. Whites, burs, and swamps will give you a little flex, but reds, blacks, pins, and rocks will not flex at all. Once overloaded they snap..especially if there is vascular dessication at all in the wood. The decay at the base may or may not be a sign that there is any drying out in the wood, but the fact that the crown looks healthy is not a sign that there isn't. Meaning that just because the crown is green does not mean that wood is not dried out, or even more brittle than it would be normally.
Your hard oaks...Reds, Pins, Blacks, etc. are strong trees, but somewhat like glass. IF you do not, or cannot get approval from the customer for using a brush nest...use a sliding rope technique in lowering your limbs.. Have your groundmen slow the missle down, but not stop it, They should be able to place it on the ground with virtually no impact, yet never put the entire shockload on the tree itself.
As quoted before, the nest is the best way to go...just trying to give another option. Half wraps instead of full, and smart groundmen could make this job easy...stupid groundsmen, and lazy ones could hurt you imensely, and your reputation with your customer.
1/2 inch stable braid will give you more than plenty strength.

i have an man crew two climbers and 6 groundsman we do about three of thes aday tipicly in florida spot looks alittle tight but rope the branches down 8500lb sampson 1/2in the ground guys should have everything ran through the chipper buy the time the stick si ready to block down if its tight half wrap on the rope and only drop 2 to 3 foot chuncks let the ground guys move three or four at a tim e so you dont buld up a pile i did tow swwet gum trees friday bigger than that and finnished half of a larger oak just the stick rmains my thought as long as the guy in charge feels comfertabal runn it

 

[Thillmaine]

Red Oak

Red Oak for sure.... or something in that family...small peices...lat down some 3/4 in ch plywood, might break afew sheets, but it wont hurt the lawn nearly as bad..