New OEM Piston chipping

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Terry Syd

Terry Syd

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
2,290
Location
Australia
Manufacturing tolerances are just that, tolerances (+ or -). Many manufacturers will match pistons and cylinders to get the right clearance when they assemble an engine. It looks like you may have had a tighter jug and then put in a slightly oversize piston.

The piston is tapered at the top to allow for heat expansion. The bottom of the skirt is symmetrical and got a bit tight when it got hot. Since it didn't seize when you were using it, it is probably 'fitted' properly now. You can always take a bit of emery cloth to those high spots if you're concerned. Perhaps the expanded piston caused the loss of power you noticed. The extra friction from the expanded piston will cause a drop in power, I've seen it before.

I don't see chips on the side of the piston, just the ends of the hatch marks. The rings and cylinder don't have any scores, so it doesn't appear anything got between them.

On two-stroke engines, rings will often wear quite rapidly where the bridge between the ports protrudes in with less piston/ring clearance. That's because the bridge will run cooler with mixture cooling both sides of the bridge and the bridge doesn't expand at the same rate as other parts of the cylinder. Open port cylinders are notorious for that type of ring wear. I don't see the tell tale carbon track on the cylinder that indicates a notched ring, but it is something to check.

A 40 psi drop in compression is considerable and I can't see anything in the photos that would explain it. Perhaps you had some assembly lube still in the cylinder when you first checked it. That would be easy enough to check, just put it back together with some more assembly lube and re-check the compression, then check it again after running it a while.
 
Jon1212

Jon1212

Riff Raff Fart Knocker from other Forum's.
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
11,194
Location
Spanish Fork, Utah
Manufacturing tolerances are just that, tolerances (+ or -). Many manufacturers will match pistons and cylinders to get the right clearance when they assemble an engine. It looks like you may have had a tighter jug and then put in a slightly oversize piston.

The piston is tapered at the top to allow for heat expansion. The bottom of the skirt is symmetrical and got a bit tight when it got hot. Since it didn't seize when you were using it, it is probably 'fitted' properly now. You can always take a bit of emery cloth to those high spots if you're concerned. Perhaps the expanded piston caused the loss of power you noticed. The extra friction from the expanded piston will cause a drop in power, I've seen it before.

I don't see chips on the side of the piston, just the ends of the hatch marks. The rings and cylinder don't have any scores, so it doesn't appear anything got between them.

On two-stroke engines, rings will often wear quite rapidly where the bridge between the ports protrudes in with less piston/ring clearance. That's because the bridge will run cooler with mixture cooling both sides of the bridge and the bridge doesn't expand at the same rate as other parts of the cylinder. Open port cylinders are notorious for that type of ring wear. I don't see the tell tale carbon track on the cylinder that indicates a notched ring, but it is something to check.

A 40 psi drop in compression is considerable and I can't see anything in the photos that would explain it. Perhaps you had some assembly lube still in the cylinder when you first checked it. That would be easy enough to check, just put it back together with some more assembly lube and re-check the compression, then check it again after running it a while.

You don't see chips in the piston edges? Seriously?
20150918_130043.jpg
20150919_105116.jpg
Assembly lube? The saw was put together and run.

As for score marks, they are definitely there. Above, and below the intake, and exhaust side.

Do pistons typically get shipped out with fine edges, or is it typical for the manufacturer to mill the fine edges flat?

I've measured the cylinder at the skirt, and into the lower cylinder wall, and it measures just under 45mm (44.92).
 
Jon1212

Jon1212

Riff Raff Fart Knocker from other Forum's.
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
11,194
Location
Spanish Fork, Utah
20150919_181402.jpg
Yeah, what's weird is those look like chips out of the piston(because they are), and that looks like the piston was abraided with something.

I'm going to have the cylinder measured for consistent bore(which I don't believe is the problem), but I can assure you that I won't be buying another piston from the same dealer.
 
Justsaws

Justsaws

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Messages
4,825
Location
Zanesville Ohio
I would just clean that piston up and finish off the edges. Check the ring out maybe replace if it has a defect, cannot see any in the photo.

The top of the cylinder where the bore meets the roof need to be checked out, could be a shadow but looks suspect for ring blow by. Hope not.

If there is room clean up the bottoms(corners) of the skirts as well. Could be the way I am looking at the photos but they look a bit sloppy as well.

Do you still have the original piston? That might answer your question as to the level of finish you should expect.
 
Terry Syd

Terry Syd

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
2,290
Location
Australia
You don't see chips in the piston edges? Seriously?

I don't have the advantage of holding the piston in my hand, I'll take your word for it that some part of the piston came apart while the engine was running. - On another note, the expanded piston skirt may have worn against the cylinder, but it did not seize. Admittedly the lower part of the skirt doesn't run at the temperatures that the top part does, but your oil was obviously doing its job - so what oil were you running?

I'm not attempting to turn this into an 'oil thread', but real world lubrication experience with an oil is much more informative than posts about how an oil smells.
 
Jon1212

Jon1212

Riff Raff Fart Knocker from other Forum's.
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
11,194
Location
Spanish Fork, Utah
I don't have the advantage of holding the piston in my hand, I'll take your word for it that some part of the piston came apart while the engine was running. - On another note, the expanded piston skirt may have worn against the cylinder, but it did not seize. Admittedly the lower part of the skirt doesn't run at the temperatures that the top part does, but your oil was obviously doing its job - so what oil were you running?

I'm not attempting to turn this into an 'oil thread', but real world lubrication experience with an oil is much more informative than posts about how an oil smells.

Terry,

I agree having this saw in front of me is definitely a visual advantage. Though somewhat all the more frustrating, from a reminder standpoint.


The oil I use is Shindaiwa Red Armor mixed 40:1 with 88 Clear(Non Ethanol).

I also have a picture of the original piston that was in this saw. I'll get it posted up in a bit.
 
TermiteBuffet

TermiteBuffet

ArboristSite Guru
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
537
Location
Midgetville N.C.
3ceae2b902c485d174edbb064e6c2518.jpg

aa84dcbfa506c63fc778b18ecec9960a.jpg
[emoji200]

One of these 2 is the original

Pedal Tractor Loggin'
 
huskihl

huskihl

Addicted to ArboristSite
. AS Supporting Member.
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
4,850
Location
Northern Michigan
In the pictures, it looks to me like it's just the cross-sectional pattern that's cast into the side of the piston.
I see that too. Or maybe the piston chipped, but it didn't affect the area where the cross hatch is because it's thicker there. Either way, kinda weird for an oem piston
 
Jon1212

Jon1212

Riff Raff Fart Knocker from other Forum's.
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
11,194
Location
Spanish Fork, Utah
In the pictures, it looks to me like it's just the cross-sectional pattern that's cast into the side of the piston.

Brad,

I'm glad you finally showed up.

I understand what you are saying, but the pictures just don't quite show the issues.

Also, the lack of finishing at the Mahle factory is readily apparent when compared to the pistons that were original to these saws.

I also wish I could get a good enough picture to show the scratches in the cylinder walls. They are both above, and below the intake and exhaust ports.
 
Top