New to arborism, Insurance and workman's comp question?

[OaktreePC]

Hey All,

This is my first post here, so let me know if it would be better somewhere else.

I run a landscaping business and am expanding into arborism. I have a great guy with experience working for me and want to make sure I have all the paperwork in order. I have a terrible habit of doing everything above board and by the book.

I am in washington.

I have gen. liability, and called my L and I rep. looking for what risk codes I need to use for this as far as workman's comp. It looks like I just need tree care/service and logging for dropping trees. Really not too bad all said and done. Is there anything I am missing? Any special classification to have someone in a tree?

The main reason I am asking is that my good buddy is running an arborist company in North Carolina and the workman's comp is UNREAL. something like $15k upfront and 40% of what you earn. I know it varies, state to state, but that seems like a big jump.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[OaktreePC]

oops. please move this to business management

 

[jefflovstrom]

There is no such thing as Arborism,,,,look it up,
Jeff

 

[Pelorus]

Arborism is extreme arboriculture which results in unintended consequences, like Joan Rivers going in for a little vocal cord fine tuning.

 

[acer-kid]

I have a terrible habit of doing everything above board and by the book.

Wait... What?

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

There is no such thing as Arborism,,,,look it up,
Jeff

Its a religion.... oooooohmmmmmm!

 

[RajElectric]

Not much to add from me, other than at least he's not looking to get into doing men's hair styling, you know, barbarism.

 

[gorman]

Its a religion.... oooooohmmmmmm!

I thought it was a cult.

 

[OaktreePC]

Oh my...quite the sass around these parts

I guess improper vernacular invalidates my questions?

I'm looking for information on workers comp etc in regards to expanding my business into arboriculture....that better?

Re: "...terrible habit of doing everything by he book..." It is sarcasm.

Thanks

 

[TreeAce]

It has been my experience in this industry that A. Insurance costs really aren't that bad and B. Workers comp cost is unGodly bad, so bad in fact it boggles my mind when I think about it and it gives me a headache. I/we in Ohio pay right around 25%. I am under the impression that its the same for all tree services here. And NO i have never had a claim (knock on wood). I understand that some places are much higher than 25%. I cant even begin to imagine how thats even possible. I guess its just passed on to the customer. I know around here theres so many little douche bags running without WC thats its hard as hell to have it and stay competitive. Good luck. Now wheres that advil........

 

[TreeAce]

And oh ya , I almost forgot the part about using past payroll expenses to calculate your first payment to WC in order to get the ball rolling. So ya, its gonna cost you a significant chuck of cash up front. It seems like a dam racket to me.

 

[ATH]

In Ohio, the undiscounted rate for worker's comp in the main tree care code is just over 50% (or is it just under?) If I am part of a group, that can be discounted down to around 25% (give or take a few points). I see Washington is also a monopolistic state. Call the State and ask them what the rate is for the classification. (or do you do it through a 3rd party?). You said "looks like I just need tree care/service and logging for dropping trees. Really not too bad all said and done."...did they quote you a rate? Curious what it is.

I do have 3 classifications... in addition to the tree care (described above), I also have "landscape installation" (or something like that) that is used when we plan trees and "landscape maintenance" (or something) that I use when there is no overhead work. I don't have those risk codes in front of me. I thought I could look them up on the reporting page without filing a report, but it won't let me... If you need them I can go digging. I don't have logging, and as I understand it, do not need it as tree care covers tree removal as well. Note OSHA tried to regulate tree removal operations under the logging standard a few years ago and learned quickly that would not fly...so I suspect worker's comp probably will separate the two as well. But your state is different than mine, so it is hard to say.

 

[Philbert]

Oh my...quite the sass around these parts

Welcome to A.S! Where you get what you pay for here!

Work comp is different in every state. You are correct that there could be different occupational codes for logging, tree trimming, landscaping, etc. Best to check with people in your state so that you don't get surprised.

Philbert

 

[ATH]

....It seems like a dam racket to me.

Well, the state has given 2 Billion (yes B) back to employers over the last 2 years, and they are lower rates a point or two again...so yes, they were raking in the cash. Hopefully they will get it managed better.

It drives me nuts to see companies with NO safety precautions. NO hardhats with somebody working overhead. Don't even own a pair of chaps. Unmaintained equipment, rickety old bucket trucks that you know haven't been checked for 15 years. Old chipper with no safety bar. Pushing stuff into the chipper with their leg. Eating lunch on the chipper chute while it is running. Pruning overhead with a chainsaw on drywall stilts (yes I have pictures). Not tied in twice while climbing the tree., Etc....etc....etc.... And they are paying the same rate as I am (if they are paying at all). I kinda wish BWC would do spot checks and lower or raise the rate based on what they find.

 

[jefflovstrom]

At least you are not in California.
Jeff

 

[ATH]

What do you pay in CA Jeff?

 

[jefflovstrom]

50%

 

[Philbert]

In most states, the rates are determined by the losses. People complaining about the rates need to look at the source of those losses, as ATH has described. If the basis of the safety program is, "That's what I have insurance for", you don't have to look much farther.

Usually, individual companies with better loss ratings (fewer injuries), can get an 'experience modifer' applied to their rate. But this is balanced over 3 to 4 years of work experience. So new companies start out with the 'industry average' rating, which means that you are paying for the actions of your competitors, and have to earn the lower rates over time.

Philbert

 

[BC WetCoast]

Here in BC, workers comp is a gov't agency. Everybody pays to play. It's not uncommon for those operating without proper safety gear to be ratted out and an inspector shows up unannounced. and shuts everything down.

 

[ATH]

Philbert, I noticed you are not in a monopolistic state. We can only dream of what you describe. After 1 year an employer in Ohio is eligible for group rating. Without any accident, you can be in a group with other "low risk" employers and receive the maximum reduction. That you get opportunity to go to that so soon is nice... but then you can be in business with no accident for another 50 years and your rate will never go down any further - only up if you do have accidents and no longer qualify for the low risk group.