Norway Maple Dmaged by Truck

[dan021353]

I have a Norway maple in my yard (caliper about 3") that was struck by a truck. The truck was backing up slowly and struck the tree head on bending it to about a 30 degree angle. The small roots around the base of the tree uprooted and there is a couple of gashes to the tree trunk and branches.

I immediately uprighted the tree and compacted the soil some on the damaged side. I also trickled some water in the area for about an hour. One more issue, the uprooting exposed an ant colony that appears to have made a home in the soil beneath the tree.

1) Should I stake the tree? Suprisingly it looks like it took the hit pretty well. The tree was planted 4 years ago.

2) Other than trimming the damaged bark on trunk and branches should I apply a dressing of some sort?

3) Should I go after the ant farm beneath the tree?

Also would like to know your thoughts in the chances of this tree surviving all this. The contractor admitted liability, but if the tree doesn't show immediate signs of damage, I'm afraid we may not see be able to prove the hit caused problems down the road.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Dan
Lancaster, NY
Western New York State

 

[treeseer]

NO to dressings or ant attack. What % of the roots broke? If the roots move a lot when you wiggle the trunk, staking may not be a bad idea.

Obviously a picture would help a lot.

 

[dan021353]

Norway Maple Damaged by Truck

Tree already staked in three places with 6 foot metal stakes and hose wrapped wire. Appears damage to surface roots only. Some bark damage near base of tree on side where truck hit; almost like bark popped when tree was bent over. Can't see crack in the base of the tree. See attached pics.

Leaves still OK after three days since hit.

Also, already applied ant killer (permethrin granules) from Bonide Products.

 

[treeseer]

O where O where is that little trunk flare?
O where in the earth can it be?
Your mulch has it covered,
But it must be discovered,
O where can your trunk flare be?

:hmm3grin2orange:

If the contractor is taking responsibility, s/he should be willing to pay for extra TLC to make sure that wound closes and all's well with the tree. 3 years of special care and monitoring--add it up to reach the Cost of Cure. this is an appraisal formula that is widely accepted. pm me if you want a tele-appraisal done!

 

[dan021353]

Norway Maple Damaged by Truck

Thanks for the help (and the nice little jingle). I assume the trunk "flare" is the place where the tree was actually damaged. I will pass along your recommendation to ther contractor. So far, he has been very cooperative.
Also, thanks for your offer to appraise. I may be in touch after I pass this news on to the contractor, if you don't mind.

Other than staking and worrying, what other TLC should be provided for the next three years - if you don't mind me asking?

 

[pbtree]

Trunk flare is the area where the trunk widens, just where it enters the earth. your mulch is too high, as it is covering this portion - uncover it please as the tree will much appreciate it.

 

[treeseer]

see New Tree Planting in the link below.

Find the Flare!

 

[whitenack]

I assume the trunk "flare" is the place where the tree was actually damaged.

Read this thread.

 

[dan021353]

Norway Maple Damaged by Truck

OK, now I know what a flare is - thanks to the help from treeseer, pbtree and whitenack. Here are photos from my three maples - first one is the truck 'hit and run', the others are just there.

Did I find the flare? If it's lower, I'll keep digging. I did get to some surface rooting, so I want to be sure. PS. I'll clear away accumulated mulch later.

 

[whitenack]

No my friend, unfortunately you have not found the flare.

Check out the pics from the thread I posted about above. See all the roots I uncovered? I believe you will see that before you get to the flare.

I was just like you just a few weeks ago. Scared to go too deep. You will know when you get there. The trunk will stop going down and will start going out to the sides.

Keep going, and keep posting pics. We'll be here.

 

[dan021353]

Norway Maple Damaged by Truck

OK, I think I've made progress towards 'finding the flare'. I think I have it. I'm getting to the point where I'm almost below grade - maybe an issue caused by the original planting done by my local nursery?? Here are some new photos to compare with those that were previously submitted. Would appreciate an opinion before I start hacking off surface roots. Some of these are 1/2 inch diameter, one comes off of the trunk a few inches above the flare, one lies really close to the flared portion of the trunk. Thanks!

 

[whitenack]

Yes, you are making progress, but don't pay attention to where the grade is, pay attention to where the tree is. What brought me to this site many years ago was the fact that my trees had been buried around 12" below grade.

Looks like you are getting close, but I think you still may have a few more inches to go. However, I'll let some of the experts comment on whether they think you should keep going, which would require snipping that large adventitious root (which might kill the tree), or just stopping here and hoping that is good enough (which might kill the tree).

How long ago was it planted?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

It looks like a new planting. I'd call the landscaper back and have it re-planted at the correct level.
The other tree in the background is too deep too. This will cause roots to girdle around the trunk and kill the tree, not right away, but in 10 to 15 years, just about the time the tree is reaching a nice size. At that point it's too late to fix.
Planting depth is a problem that will not go away soon because the tree dies long after the warranty period, and by then it's likely unknown who planted it anyway, and even more often, it's not known why it died, it just died.
Ninety-nine out of 100 landscapers don't know anything about planting depth. You may have to educate him on planting depth and girdling roots. You will find great resistance in getting him to admit anything is wrong. He'll say he's been doing it for 15 years that way and none of his trees die, bla, bla, bla.
As for the tree you're working on now, I'd see how much deeper it is to the flare and then decide what to do. If it close to where you are, cut off the two adventitious roots and get the soil to the flare. If it's deeper, replant it higher, take one or two adventitious roots off a year while lowering the grade until you get down to where it should be.
For more information, Google "girdling roots" for about 900 billion hits on why planting depth matters.
Pictures

 

[dan021353]

Norway Maple Damaged by Truck

Tree was planted about four years ago. I will try to see if the nurseryman will take some responsibility for the original planting depth. He is a small timer and no doubt some summer student did the planting and he wasn't on site when it was planted.
To replant at this point seems like a huge and costly endeavor.

We'll see what happens - but if he can't (or won't) help, I'll go it alone.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[whitenack]

keep us updated.

 

[treeseer]

I'd stop digging for now and apply 3" of mulch. In the fall it will be time to get the root situation straightened out. nOt sure whether removing the adventitious root(s0 is necessary or advisable at this stage.

The truck was the secondary stressor, the defective roots are the primary stressor. Try to collect a hundred or two from the contractor, saying the tree has lost x% of its value.

Look at the Buying and Planting info in the link below. Get it to the local nursery and landscape people so they are on notice that if they keep selling substandard stock they are liable for losses.

 

[dan021353]

Norway Maple Damaged by Truck

Talked to nurseryman. His planting technique is typically to excavate the hole for the B&B tree, set the tree so top of root ball is basically above grade, then backfill excavated dirt around the root ball. In this case we ended up with a 4 foot diameter excavation site. Asked about exposure of the tree flare, he said that will happen as the tree grows - the tree is still too young to see the flare. He did mention that the graft line should be even with surrounding soil. In this case he means the excavated pile.

He believes that since the excavated dirt pile is so small in diameter and only a few inches above surrounding grade (about 4-5), there should be no problem with oxygen starvation to the roots since they will eventually extend out past the pile.

He did advise that I cut any roots that look like they are girdling the tree and claims this could be a problem with how the grower cultivates and digs out the tree before B&B. The nursery guys can't check roots for possible girdling down the road since the don't take apart the root ball.

Bottom line is he feels the trees are properly planted and will thrive given proper care. I decided to cut the exposed roots on the tree shown in the picture I posted today, reduce the height of the excavated dirt pile on the other two trees, though not down to the flare, cut web roots that were exposed by this action, move mulch away from tree trunks and cross my fingers.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I warned you he would resist, I could have bet money on it. He is wrong, plain and simple. Invite him to come to Arboristsite and tell us trees thrive when planted too deep.
You might want him to do an internet search on Stem Girdling Roots (SGRs) before he come to tell us how wrong we are.
The fact is that if any part of the trunk is buried, roots will impact it. Roots impacting a trunk is a problem because the two types of tissue are different, roots and bark can not graft together, and they both (roots and stems) increase in diameter as they grow.
Have you ever seen a rope, wire, or chain wrapped around a tree for a long time? The tree grows in diameter until it is girdled, then it slowly chokes itself to death.
This is what will happen if dirt is against the trunk, and the trunk starts at the flare. Above the flare, trunk, below the flare, roots.

You wrote:
"He did advise that I cut any roots that look like they are girdling the tree and claims this could be a problem with how the grower cultivates and digs out the tree before B&B. The nursery guys can't check roots for possible girdling down the road since the don't take apart the root ball."

How would you cut the roots that are girdling unless you dug down to the flare to expose the possible girdling roots? What then, bury it back up so more roots can grow up and girdle it again in a few years?
If the tree was planted properly, with the root flare at grade (which you can clearly see from 30 feet away), the roots couldn't girdle the stem because the stem would be in the air where roots don't grow.
So essentially he is admitting he plants his trees too deep! What he's really admitting is he doesn't know (or possibly care) about SGRs.

From the same site:
"The top of the root ball is not always the trunk flare. Remove burlap from immediate trunk area of tree. Pull back excess soil around trunk of tree to locate trunk flare. Measure the height from the base of the trunk flare to the bottom of the root ball. Dig to the depth of the trunk flare. "

If the flare is at grade, roots can't girdle the stem!

 

[treeseer]

Mike's right.

You've pruned roots very early in the growing season, which I think is a bad idea. Oh well.
I strongly recommend that you aerate the soil outside the original planting hole--I use a pick, do NOT till-- and inoculate it with compost, to encourage root growth away from the stem. mulch beyond the branch tips and water when it does not rain every week.

If you talked to the guy with no objective reference like the info below, you stood open to his BS, and you got an earful. :monkey:

This is a controversial subject--the recent BMP's, and the CEU article on planting are fraught with contradictions because some authorities are not in the field enough to understand what a pandemic buried stems are. Yet.:angry2:

 

[whitenack]

Talked to nurseryman. ...Asked about exposure of the tree flare, he said that will happen as the tree grows - the tree is still too young to see the flare.

Unless I am completely misjudging the caliper of your tree, he is incorrect.

Check out this pic.

My tree isn't much older than your's.

If you have already snipped the roots, don't stop now. Go all the way to the flare, no matter how deep you have to dig. At least then you will know what a flare looks like with your own eyes, and you will be able to easily ID one in the future.

Don't stop til you get to the flare.