OH NO ! ! ! -- another CSM meltdown

[Fallguy1960]

DRB that is more of what I was thinking. Larger diameter than the one Bob had. Have you had the chance to use them much yet? Do they what to ride up?

 

[DRB]

Fallguy

They don't seem to ride up that I have noticed. The weight of the 088 seems to keep the mill down. I did break one of the 1/4" mounting bolts but they are easy to replace. I usually cut my logs into square cants then cut boards from the square cant. The wheels sure roll nice down the side of a square cant when cutting boards.

 

[billstuewe]

As I am milling I think about your wheels and I think they would get in the way more than not. I use the crank/pully and it really makes the sawing easy. The only trouble I have had is on the bottom half of a sharp curved log the upright will dig in and I do like the PVC pipe idea. Try the pully system--it is pretty slick.

I now have this hook that holds the pulley on the end of the log--

This is how I attached the crank--notice the clamp on the pipe in front of the crank. It guides the string straight into the spool

 

[mtngun]

Bill Stuewe, I admire your crank. If I milled a lot of big wood, I would definitely try cranking. As it is, I have to push the mill pretty hard on big wood (big to me, anyway) and it's very tiring over the course of a day.

More often I mill 14" - 18" logs that are easy enough to push through, except for the mill getting hung up on bark and bumps, that's where an effective skid would come in handy.

BTW, do you have a remote throttle on your powerhead, so that your left hand is free to crank ?

 

[BobL]

This is less of a problem for me that others but the way I see it the main problem with any skid, wheel or ball is when they even partially align themselves with bark or trunk folds. These gizmos will then tend to track along fold lines and if the fold happens to rise or fall may jam the mill and then require some effort to unjam it.

Whatever is used, it appears that it would be better if the gizmos are longer in the vertical dimension than any of the fold widths.

This leads me to two possible options, a wide skid or a wide roller. The bigger the log being sawn the wider these would have to be because the bottom and top edges of either a roller or wide skid can still track and fold. The way around this is an adjustable height roller or skid.

So on my next mill I am thinking using approach but with 6" long x 1" diam plastic or ally rollers replacing this wheels.

 

[billstuewe]

mtngun, I have no remote throttle. My left hand is on the chainsaw grip/throttle and I crank with my right hand and with my left I also guide the slant/angle of the mill to best navigate along the log. Sometime the saw end is in the lead, sometime the bare nose, depending on how it will slide easiest.

 

[mtngun]

mtngun, I have no remote throttle. My left hand is on the chainsaw grip/throttle and I crank with my right hand

That's odd, because your pic shows the crank handle mounted on the left side. Wouldn't it be more comfortable on the right side ?

I guess it would depend on where you are sitting or standing as you operate the mill ?

A remote throttle control is on my winter project list. Meanwhile, I've experimented with sliding a zip tie over the trigger. It is nice to be able to put both hands on the mill, but I'm nervous about the safety aspect of the zip tied trigger.

Good pics, BobL, and good point. I agree that the height of the skid/roller needs to be adjustable to be effective. And taller makes sense, too.

 

[billstuewe]

Mtngun, Please so not try the zip-tie method. If nothing bad happens to you, the least you will do is burn out your clutch when the chain hangs up and you cannot let off the throttle fast enough. I have the old pick-up truck with the winch on the back and I always pick the log up and set it on something so I do not have to bend over so much and when I saw I am basically standing facing the mill in line with its long axis. Also, as BobL said in a couple of posts back in regards to the mill wheel riding up or down on the bark, " When this becomes a problem I reduced this effect by angling the mill so that only the trailing wheel contacts the log. This requires a bit more physical effort by placing pressure on the outboard side of the mille but improves the finish especially of the first cut." The crank system with the pully avoids this because the mill is being pulled towards the end of the log by the pulley and it pulls both sides pretty much equally. It is then very easy for me to guide which end of the saw leads with my left hand. I milled a bunch of 4/4 out of 8" cants once and used the crank on these 8" cuts and it worked very well. I use the crank on everything except very short cuts.

 

[BobL]

Mtngun, Please so not try the zip-tie method. If nothing bad happens to you, the least you will do is burn out your clutch when the chain hangs up and you cannot let off the throttle fast enough.

I don't know how often people's chains hang up but FWIW, if my chains hang I don't always let the throttle go. I leave it WOT, pull back on the mill and ease back into the cut. Folk with lots of CS milling experience (eg Aggiewoodbutcher) have used cable ties for many years on mills without problems and I have yet to hear about a clutch burning out due to using one. I use cable ties on my 441, Huds 3120 and used one my 076 for a while. The trick with cable ties is not to make them too tight so they can be slipped off very quickly. The advantage of having both hands on the mill, or the wrap handle and mill, means that if the saw does bog, one quick tug and the mill is usually free. If the operators hand is down on the trigger their arms and shoulders get sore very quickly making it harder to unbog the saw.

I saw I am basically standing facing the mill in line with its long axis.

I can understand how having to hang onto the trigger and drive a winch leads an operator to use an "in-line" stance since the operator is closer to the trigger so their arms are not spread so far apart. However, my reading of the orientation/location of your winch handle is that the operators hand will have to be cocked or bent to hold onto the winch handle meaning the wrist would need to rotate to drive the winch. Also the operator has to lean over a little to reach the winch handle. I would have thought it would gave been better to locate the winch closer to the operator and to keep the hand straight and the wrist locked and then use the arm to drive the crank. If that is the case then have you considered a crank location on the inboard mill upright with the crank at 90º to the current position. Something like this.

This would allow an even more upright stance and make it even easier to turn the winch because the hand/arm would be more ergonomically located. Remember appropriate use of pulleys means the winch can be attached anywhere on the mill. To use the winch in this location would require only one pulley on the rear milling rail.

Ultimately, whether you use a winch or not I reckon standing behind the saw is a better place to be since it is opposite the sawdust ejection point although closer to the exhaust on mist stock saws. Winch operators might think about adding a T bar handle on top of the mill upright, a remote throttle on the left top side of the T-bar upright and the winch on the right - no or very little bending over after that?

 

[billstuewe]

OK, I will correct myself by posting a picture. Here I am sawing with the Logosol but the stance is the same. The Logosol rail is not there so I actually move in behind the sawhead a bit, about where the rail is so the crank is not much further away on the AK III--I get right next to the log. It really is quite easy. The height does vary with each cut and I have cut some close to the ground, but I usually just set the log on something that gives a comfortable height.

 

[mtngun]

You got a Logosol, too ? You must have got bit by the milling bug pretty bad.

Thanks for the pic. I guess the right handed crank would work it the log were off the ground and you were standing like in your pic.

I'll add a crank to my winter project list. I suspect the crank will only get used on the rare (for me) large log, but when you need it, you need it.

 

[Andrew96]

Well I've been thinking about this crank thing. To me...I couldn't come up with any benefits. It looks like I'm just going to twiddle a crank, rather than 'just' guide my somewhat self feeding saw. Then I thought about cutting uphill. I know, I know...but sometimes that's just where it lands and there is no way around it (obstacles, wind wrong...who knows). A crank seems like a good idea to overcome uphill cutting. On flat ground...I can't see any benefit.

 

[BobL]

Well I've been thinking about this crank thing. To me...I couldn't come up with any benefits. It looks like I'm just going to twiddle a crank, rather than 'just' guide my somewhat self feeding saw.

I must be one of the laziest millers I know and I also don't see a need for a winch either - but that is just my personal preference. OK maybe if the cut is more than ~50"+ wide it might help keep some pressure up on the outboard side. To me using a winch on a mill on narrow cuts is a sign that perhaps the operator doesn't quite know how to setup a self feeding chain or they are prepared to run a blunt chain. But I also reckon do what ever works for you.

Then I thought about cutting uphill. I know, I know...but sometimes that's just where it lands and there is no way around it (obstacles, wind wrong...who knows). A crank seems like a good idea to overcome uphill cutting.

OK - I'll pay that - maybe I need to get out into the bush more and get involved with obstacles.

 

[mtngun]

To me using a winch on a mill on narrow cuts is a sign that perhaps the operator doesn't quite know how to setup a self feeding chain or they are prepared to run a blunt chain.

Because my chains are not self feeding on large logs.

Optimal raker angle seems to depend on the width of the cut. Wide cuts seem to require MORE raker angle, or else much feed pressure has to be applied.

One chooses a raker angle that works best under "average" conditions, which for me is 14" - 18" logs. The same chain works miserably on 26" logs.

 

[BobL]

Because my chains are not self feeding on large logs.

Optimal raker angle seems to depend on the width of the cut. Wide cuts seem to require MORE raker angle, or else much feed pressure has to be applied.

One chooses a raker angle that works best under "average" conditions, which for me is 14" - 18" logs. The same chain works miserably on 26" logs.

I agree one optimizes the raker angle to suit cut widths and powerhead capabilities but I have not observed higher raker angle improving saw feeding ability at wider widths probably because I am already operating at some sort of limiting values. Using the 076 or 880 in 40"+ wide wood, if I increase the raker angles above 7º the cutters just grab too much wood and stall the saw. I then find myself holding the saw back. The wider the wood the more sensitive these saws are to stalling on higher raker settings.

On less than 24" logs I can up the raker angles to over 8º and not stall these saw and the cutting speed increases accordingly but it leaves a much rougher finish and there is a tendency to washboard. This is why I typically use 6 - 6.5º raker angles on the big saws.

I'm now thinking that if your saws are not self feeding in wider cuts this may be a problem of insufficient cutter hook, not insufficient raker angle. Increasing raker angle indirectly increases hook but that is not always the best way to do it.