Ok to use Petzl Stop for all?

[mikecross23]

I have been reading some safety threads between this site and ???????? and it has brought some questions to mind on the SRT ascender/descender that I use. Let me explain. . . Instal climbing rope w/ friction saver, tie off at base of tree w/ bowline. Climb free end w/ petzl handled ascender and footpro stirrup attached to center D and as my back up/resting device I use the petzl stop. I've kind of been using the petzl stop for everything. When I ascend I pull the slack through the petzl stop w/ my free hand, then relax and bring my knees up and then stand again. Pulling slack through the stop is not the easiest thing to do but isn't too bad. When I reach my working destination I tie a half hitch lock knot around the petzl stop to avoid creep or slippage and take of my handled ascender. I have been using my petzl stop to move around in the tree in about every aspect. I ascend w/ it, I limb walk w/ it, and I rappel w/ it. I always lock it off when not holding the free end of the rope or moving about, does anyone see dangers/disadvantages to how I climb.
Will you guys please share the methods you use once you reach your tip and are ready to start working. I'm also trying to cut down on the amount of tools that I carry b/c they just get in my way. Thanks for any help! ! !

 

[treeclimber165]

Not familiar with the Stop, is it similar to the LockJack?

An item to make it waaaaaaaay easier to pull out slack as you ascend is the Petzl Pantin. It allows me to 'footlock' without footlocking and I can practically fly up a rope now. I bought one a couple months ago and now I won't climb without it. My favorite item and it doesn't get in my way at all.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

You're taking SRT into a working system. Good for you!

I don't think that a bobbin descender is a good choice as an ascender or working device. AS you've found, it doesn't go up the rope, hence the name "descender" You'd be better served using an I'd. The Gri Gri could be used but has some shortcomings. Better to use a tool that is designed to do the job you intend than to cobble together something less than adequate. Be sure to back up the I'd too.

Here's a method you might consider for your ascent rope. by using this method you don't double load the tie in point. After setting the rope, you could dispense with the false crotch, tie a running bowline with a loop that will be about one third the diameter of the TIP. The large loop keeps the runing bowline from sucking down too snug around the limb. Attach a light cord to the loop of the bowline and pull the running bowline up and snug it off. The cord is there to use as a retrieval line for the running bowline. After descending you pull the cord. Throwline is probably not a good choice. You will have to overcome the friction of the running bowline snugging down on the limb and the weight of the running end of the rope. You'll be surprised how hard you have to pull. You could also tie a bowline in a bight, midline, and just use the end of the same rope if you choose.

Tom

 

[Oxman]

The Stop is one of those rope diameter-dependant devices. The weight of the climber shoves an eccentric shaped bobbin that pivots over to clamp off the line against another bobbin. They are grooved to accept the shape of a rope, kinda like a pulley sheave. The clamping action is more pronounced on larger diameter rope, such as arborist rope. On skinny rope, the Stop can creep pretty bad. Sorry about putting this info in on this board as it is somewhat off-topic. But the thing handles as different as night & day with varying size ropes.

I have never tried using my Stop for going up the rope, but the technique is described in the literature. Moving it up is a gluey procedure, similar to using a Grillon with a real long flipline. The s-shaped channel offers most resistance to sliding in the up direction. I like Brians' idea of adding the Pantin in this application. I'm also a convert to the foot ascender.

Rather than tie off the Stop when it is unattended during bursts of work, why not have a backup? A prussik loop could work to provide safety. Placing the backup above the Stop causes the lanyard to interfere with the operation of the handle in certain configurations. Regardless, I like a figure eight above a Stop on 3/8" static line, especially in the rain, for security. I wish figure eights had an attachment at the top of the large ring to daiseychain devices. There's probably one on Gary Storrick's website.

 

[TREETX]

How do you redirect with that system?? Sounds like a mutha on that sytem. Going from one side of a spreading tree and redirecting to the other side or another tree sounds like it would be really tough/time consuming.

Sounds good for excurrent crowns or working only one pt of a decurrent crown.

 

[mikecross23]

Originally posted by TREETX
How do you redirect with that system?? Sounds like a mutha on that sytem. Going from one side of a spreading tree and redirecting to the other side or another tree sounds like it would be really tough/time consuming.

Sounds good for excurrent crowns or working only one pt of a decurrent crown.

I'm not too sure that I like my SRT working system yet. You see I do have problems redirecting and moving around and yes TREETX, it is very time consuming. I'm pretty new to climbing and jumped right into the SRT. Wish I was more patient in order to educate myself first, but that's just not me! So now I ask you guys. . .
Once I've ascended SRT, what method (in detail) should I transfer to begin my work? Splittail w/ friction hitch? Thanks for any help offered

 

[treeclimber165]

Without spending a fortune on a LockJack or something similar, the Doubled Rope Technique (DdRT) with friction hitch is the most commonly used method for tree work. I'd say that people actually working a tree on SRT are few and far between (less than 1%).

The basics start with tying your clip on your lifeline to leave a 3' tail with which to tie a Blake's hitch or Tautline hitch. I attached a pic of my version of a tautline. I reversed the top two wraps to make an open prusik, which kept the tail from rolling out under use. I used this hitch for the better part of 15 years.

Having recently switched to a split tail system, I can say that the only reason to use this method is the ability to use advanced hitches. I'm currently using a 4/1 Distal hitch using 8mm T-900, although I'm ordering some 8mm Sta-Set since it is 1/3 the cost and still well above acceptable strength requirements. It advances very easily and grabs quickly when weighted. It also needs very little tending once tied.

The cost of switching over to this system (not counting all the stuff I've bought and then not used) is approximately $75-$80.
2 Petzl 'biners (modified D and Williams)
Petzl micro pulley
hitch cord

The hitch cord you use will depend on personal preferences. I spent a lot of money trying several different types and every one was different. The length of your cord will also greatly affect how your hitch handles. The good news is that virtually all of them work better than the old fashioned Tautline or Blake's hitches.

 

[mikecross23]

Thanks Treeclimber165! ! ! That's the sorta response I'm lookin' for! Hope you're enjoying this great working weather we've been getting here if Fla.

 

[treeclimber165]

Actually, I've been fairly slow. Only worked 2 days last week. Had work for today, but it's raining now and supposed to rain through tomorrow. But it sure beats trying to climb in freezing temps! The thought of frozen fingertips makes me cringe.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think that the major advantage to a split tail is it's flexability and fast reset. It can be a lanyard, trace around more anchors temporarily, split and 180 around a clean spar to work the other half of the tree etc. Also, akin to using slings, the split tail set up allows for more second guessing, resetting etc. due to reduced time in these adjustments to foster more maintanance, exploration and practice at what is maximum.

i definitely love the split tail for opening up the use of eye to eye tails; but long before using an eye to eye tail, thought that a split tail was a great advancement for open climbing hitches such as the taut line and Blake's hitches that i was using at the time.

 

[treeclimber165]

The absolute BEST purchase you could make would be a book called 'Tree Climber's Companion'. Click on the Sherrill link at the top of the page and order it while you are ordering the Williams biner and micropulley. That book is very informative and will help answer many questions. It should be required reading for anyone who wants to climb trees.

 

[mikecross23]

I've been wanting that book. I guess for the price I should have bought it long ago. I bought the Tree Climbers Guide from the Sherrill Catalog and it's ok I guess. It doen't have a lot of DETAILED climbing info which is what I need. The most help I've found so far is right here on this forum. I agree w/ you Treeclimber165, frozen fingers suck, that's why I live in Florida!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Brian wrote:

...order it while you are ordering the Williams biner and micropulley.

Actually, I think, that anyone who doesn't own TTCC should buy it BEFORE they order and hard goods, the be sure to READ THE WHOLE BOOK.

If you're just getting into climbing and don't have a good mentor, you need to get the book. Check out that handsome mug on page 65, the side bar about the Stop. He sure looks familiar

Jeff wrote and told me that the Spanish edition is supposed to be avaialable this week. I believe that TTCC will have a bigger, more positive, impact on our profession than any other item.

Tom