One for the fellow bandmillers and circle millers.

[deeker]

I am logging a good stand (for Utah) of spruce.

Some Doug fir. Most is 28'dbh dead and dying. Private land.

Markets are s-l-o-w right now. Most of my timber frame buyers....are not building at the moment.

Should I end coat the logs...and just deck them??? Or cut them into the most common beam dimensions??? Boards??? I have sold a lot of 1x12's, air dried.

Most of the mills in Utah are only about 3 to 5 days out for orders...vs the usual 4 to 5 weeks.

Not much being bought right now.

Ideas???

Kevin

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Depends, do you get much end checking there??

If all else fails, just cut them over length and let the customer trim the checking off later...

Rob

 

[redprospector]

Deeker,
I'm thinking that our climate's are pretty similar. I'm milling some Pine, and Fir that I cut a year ago right now. I didn't seal the ends or anything other than deck them, and I'm not seeing too much checking (end sealer would have been nice). The Doug Fir is just as pretty and red as if it were green. The White Fir looks real good too. The Ponderosa, and Sugar Pine have quite a bit of blue stain, but that's ok, I charge extra for that.
I didn't know it would be so long before these logs got milled, or I would have put down some small logs to deck them on so they'd stay out of the dirt.

I hate milling logs before I have orders, I always cut them the wrong size.

Andy

 

[stargazer]

Here that tasty sugar pine gets gobbled up by pine borers if any bark is left on. Sometimes I just cut the biggest cants I can and sticker them up. End coating with any old paint left over from something else would probably help. I don't know how to control blue stain. Paint ends with bleach? Cover for shade?

The excellent old lumber you find around here in New England in old buildings was often seasoned in the pond, which prevented borers and checking both, and was maybe too cool for blue stain. I've seen a local commercial mill with sprinklers running on their pine log piles, must help the same way ponding did back when it was legal.

Anyway, it's often handy if you need a certain size lumber and you can just pick out a correct size cant and cut to fit. These old buildings around here are apt to have any sort of dimension lumber, nice to match it when doing a repair.

 

[mtngun]

I don't know how to control blue stain. Paint ends with bleach? Cover for shade?

Out west the blue stained pine is very desirable. I wish I knew how to control blue stain -- so I could have more of it ! ! !

 

[deeker]

We like the blue stain.

Just some of what it looks like.

 

[mtngun]

I like those cabinets, checks and all.

 

[deeker]

I like those cabinets, checks and all.

I HATE the checks. The owner backed the "green" wood with plywood.

The cabin is rustic. And the checks were his choice. He even chose the green vs. the dry wood I had.

The checks are not a bonus in my world.

 

[deeker]

The cabin is VERY rustic.

And the loft.

Fire place.

 

[mtngun]

Ah, he backed it with plywood. I wondered what was holding those checked panels together.

I don't pretend to understand the roof, but you have to admit that the cabin is handsome in a rustic sort of way.

I plan on making my kitchen cabinets from pondersosa someday (when I accumulate and dry enough boards) but I will make them extra thick to compensate for pine's weakness.

 

[stargazer]

The checks are not a bonus in my world.

The blue stain is not a bonus in my world.

That is the exact stain, excellent picture of something I hate to see. Deeker, if you didn't post those pictures I wouldn't have really believed you. Thought you must have some other stain out your way!

Mixing plywood in with lumber can definitely lead to splitting, if as the lumber shrinks across its width the plywood won't allow it to move. Rails of lumber can do the same thing, that is why for instance panel doors have the panel loose in the framework.

Not positive what causes it, but I think of the blue stain as a mold, like mold in sugar water. If you cut pine in the spring when it's full of sap, then let it set in the hot sun I think it just basically molds, right up through the pores in the wood grain. Hot and moist. Maybe that's why it seems special out west where it is dry?

 

[stargazer]

Rustic is good!

 

[mtngun]

They tell me the blue stained pine logs bring a premium at local mills, so it is kinda funny to hear easterners complaining about blue stain.

The stain seems to occur in dead standing trees, especially if the tree has gotten wet. The trick is find a tree that has been dead long enough to stain, but not so long that it has begun to rot. Pine rots pretty quickly.

We've had a lot of rain lately, and some of the pine boards that I milled recently developed a lot of mold. The mold peppered the board with black spots. Good ! ! ! It gives the wood character. I just hope the black spots are permanent.

Yes, the rustic look is very popular out here. It's funny how we have different perceptions of what looks good.

If you google for ponderosa pine furniture, you'll find several companies that specialize in rustic blue stained furniture. Here's an example (from a website, not something I made myself, though I hope to make furniture like this someday).

 

[deeker]

Depending on the size of the boards/beams.....and how much stain is in them. I get more than double the price. Usually have guys (furniture makers and contractors) offering bids against each other....

Love it.

 

[deeker]

The blue stain is not a bonus in my world.

That is the exact stain, excellent picture of something I hate to see. Deeker, if you didn't post those pictures I wouldn't have really believed you. Thought you must have some other stain out your way!

Mixing plywood in with lumber can definitely lead to splitting, if as the lumber shrinks across its width the plywood won't allow it to move. Rails of lumber can do the same thing, that is why for instance panel doors have the panel loose in the framework.

Not positive what causes it, but I think of the blue stain as a mold, like mold in sugar water. If you cut pine in the spring when it's full of sap, then let it set in the hot sun I think it just basically molds, right up through the pores in the wood grain. Hot and moist. Maybe that's why it seems special out west where it is dry?

He bought the wood, right off of my mill. And attatched it to the plywood, knowing what it would do. He makes a lot of rustic type cabins like this one.

 

[stargazer]

Depending on the size of the boards/beams.....and how much stain is in them. I get more than double the price. Usually have guys (furniture makers and contractors) offering bids against each other....

Love it.

"more than double the price." !! :jawdrop:

If it's blue on one end I cut it off and save it...........................for the burn pile.

If it's blue full length but mostly on the edges I use it personally, for some junk use.

Blue all through, I don't saw it.

I admit that I've seen people desire worm holes for "character" or ambiance or whatever. Maybe I should cut pine and let it lay in the sun for the summer, then saw up nice wormy blue lumber and truck it out there!

Is there a market for moldy bread too? :biggrinbounce2:

Joking aside, thanks for the info. I never dreamed anyone would want bluestain.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY]

Blue stain and bettle kill have become almost as hot an item here in Colorado as "green building". What typically used to be considered a visual defect is now being marketed in some areas as "denim pine" and bringing a premium. An article I read yesterday described it as a one two punch with the bettle carrying the "blue stain fungus" into the tree on it's body and the combination of the two parasites teamed with other environmental factors (drought, mild winters etc.) have produced an abnormally large number of dead trees.

The biggest positive IMO coming from all the attention has been the realization that the trees are a fire hazard/wasted resource and removing them lowers some of the hazard and provides the market with a usable product. Without all the hype people out here would probably freak out at the number of trees being harvested.

As far as appearance I think "Wood is Good". I've used it for some timber framing projects and the customers loved it.

 

[deeker]

Blue stain and bettle kill have become almost as hot an item here in Colorado as "green building". What typically used to be considered a visual defect is now being marketed in some areas as "denim pine" and bringing a premium. An article I read yesterday described it as a one two punch with the bettle carrying the "blue stain fungus" into the tree on it's body and the combination of the two parasites teamed with other environmental factors (drought, mild winters etc.) have produced an abnormally large number of dead trees.

The biggest positive IMO coming from all the attention has been the realization that the trees are a fire hazard/wasted resource and removing them lowers some of the hazard and provides the market with a usable product. Without all the hype people out here would probably freak out at the number of trees being harvested.

As far as appearance I think "Wood is Good". I've used it for some timber framing projects and the customers loved it.

Fort Collins???? I have ran in a hunt test for retrievers in the area.

As far as removing a fire hazard???? Don't tell the idiot tree huggers, they like forest fires.

I am too, glad to see this wood put to good use.

Kevin

 

[deeker]

I have a couple of customers that make picture frames, from worm eaten Quaken Aspen. Lots of reds in it. Looks great when they are done.

Kevin

 

[HUCKLEBERRY]

Kevin

Hope you enjoyed the area. It's been good to me and mine

Growing up in the southeast my father used to keep a pointer or two for quail hunting but that's about it for my hunting dog experience.

In reference to your original post it sounds like things are slow all over. I just did a little work for a large log home builder that just auctioned off everything but his buildings. It's a good time to be small.

Mike