One Handed Saw Operation

[marlinspiker]

anyhow

Ive been climbing for 5 years and admittedly used to one hand but learned my lesson. There are ways around it and once you learn them you wont go back. positioning positioning positioning.

 

[newguy18]

i climb with a husky 51 and still find the need to one hand at least once in every tree I climb.

 

[beowulf343]

If You have to "one hand" keep the RPMs down.

Yeah, but look at it this way-keep the rpm's up, finish the cut faster, and actually spend less time onehanding.

Pull that on a production crew and youd be looking for a new job fast.

Yep, never even saw a climber with a handsaw before i switched to residential.

Those of us that make our living cutting and not teaching do not agree.

Nice.



Final verdict-i am very strict when teaching new climbers about making sure they keep both hands on the saw. But once they get comfortable and learn what they are doing, i don't say much. Frankly, i one hand regularly, and it's usually with a 357 or 361. Spend enough years swinging saws around and you will build up the wrists and hands that can safely handle a saw one handed if the need arises.

 

[treesquirrel]

Final verdict-i am very strict when teaching new climbers about making sure they keep both hands on the saw. But once they get comfortable and learn what they are doing, i don't say much.

This is a very very practical and reasonable position. Thanks for being realistic.

I do realize that in our litigious society that taking a class and actually teaching one handing is in fact a poor choice. So in all fairness I do not wish to point so much at teachers as I would at lawyers.

Thanks to the threat of legal problems there are many many official stances that are just smoke and mirrors in our world today.

 

[underwor]

I will admit to one handing in the past 41 years and have the scars to prove it. All chain saw nicks have come from either one handing or using the saw above my head. I started on xl-12 with 16" bar as climbing saw and I was barely 100 lbs (wish I could still say that) so it was not really an issue. Did see a logger once one handing a 066 with 36" bar limbing some down oaks in Illinois. Decided I would not mess with him as he made it look easy

As a teacher, I challenge my students to show me the limb, over 3" silky size, that they can not reach with 2 hands on the saw. I have not had one show me a case yet. I will admit to taking a minute or two longer to get to it, but at 60 years old, I have let experience and efficiency replace speed on the job. I will not claim to never one hand, but I guarantee that once you have poked a few holes in your body, you do think a little longer about it. At my age, I usually only get the real nasty trees that no one else wants to mess with, especially those that the bucket truck can not get to. Therefore, I work on straight time and materials and charge accordingly. Found out a few years back that I like to make more money doing less volume and taking my time. All work is on referrals, no advertising. While it is not my entire livelihood, it nicely supports my hobby of teaching.

 

[treesquirrel]

As a teacher, I challenge my students to show me the limb, over 3" silky size, that they can not reach with 2 hands on the saw. I have not had one show me a case yet.

In almost all the tree work I have performed a 3 inch limb is attached to a lead that has the size to provide for a good platform where repositioning is not a problem. But in your 41 years of tree work I am sure you've met many varieties or situations where this may not be the case. The fact that you have been doing this for so long and still doing it is a testament to the level of care you take handling your saw aloft.

I have more scars from ground work than work aloft by a long shot and I never run a saw one handed on the ground. Reason, I am much much more discriminating in the canopy. Any professional will take the proper care in handling a saw with respect and care aloft. I admit to becoming a bit less careful on the ground and it is silly because on the ground I am running the big bore saws where I consider the danger higher. A slip up with an 099 or 880 would be bad.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Spend enough years swinging saws around and you will build up the wrists and hands that can safely handle a saw one handed if the need arises.

Spending years onehanding on a regular basis and you increase the chance for carpal tunnel and chronic tendinitis.

I've known enough skilled people who have kickback experiences that freaked them out that I can say with confidence that no one can control a kickback onehanded.

I will not say that it is unsafe, but it is higher risk then two hands. If we expose ourselves to elevated risk in our everyday work, why increase the risk for a few seconds of production?

Oh, because we are chest-thumping he men. Me man, me strong. You disagree, you wimpy girlyman.

Climb safer, climb longer.

 

[D Mc]

I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest, But if it has anything to do with trees, I've probably done it. My career started before finishing high school with which turned into one of the most progressive tree companies in Northern California at the time. All of us at the time one handed our saws to some degree or other. In the fifteen or so years I actively worked with that company there was not a single injury caused by one-handing a saw. My only serious saw injury was while two handing a saw on the ground in my early years which kicked back and caught my left hand. This was prior to chain brakes.

I realize things are different now and employers and employees need to protect themselves by working within the system that currently exists.

What irritates me is the complete lack of recognition for the technique itself. Somewhere, some time it may be necessary to do. You had better be capable of safely accomplishing the task.

We became aware of the complete lack of instruction on the technique of using spurs while my wife was studying for her Certified Arborist exam. There seems to be a general feeling not dissimilar to this, that if you use spurs you are not a good or "professional" climber. We are not spending the time in training new climbers in their use to become proficient when necessity demands them.

To my mind this is a mistake. There is a world of climbing techniques; you cannot gain too much knowledge in this area.

D Mc

 

[newguy18]

I agree with you totally just like one handing there is a time and a place for spurs which is on removals and even then I've had people argue with me that spurless removals are the way to go.I'll stick with spikeing my removals as well as one handing when the need arises which is about 1/4 of the time im climbing and it only got me once with the old stihl i mentioned earlier.

 

[beowulf343]

Wait a minute, JPS, are you saying that you never one-hand a saw?

 

[beastmaster]

Once you become a good climber there is never a need to one hand.

I consider my self an above average climber. I learned trimming on a production crew. when I'm in a tree trimming I do most my trimming cuts one handed, and so does everyone I've ever worked with. I have excellent control and don't cut near my safety lines or body parts. I stress safety on my crew but I never even considered one handed cutting a safety issue. The bottom line is if your a professional and you have to reach out one handed to make a cut or over your head you do it. I wonder what else I'm doing wrong

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Wait a minute, JPS, are you saying that you never one-hand a saw?

Never have, never will...say that I never do.

I agree with the old Z-133 allowing for the practice in situations where it is the only safe method.

One of the reasons I climb with a long lanyard is that it allows me batter ability to adjust body position. Sometimes there is no safe way to get 2 hands on the saw, then you need to position and secure yourself so that nothing else can go wrong.

I know of one guy who had a branch break under him while onehanding and the only thing that saved his other hand was the bar hit his watch. It was still rather messy, though all I saw were the scars on his wrist.

I disagree with people who think that one hand saw operation is acceptable SOP. If you do it yourself, you raise your risk exposure. If you allow it on a crew, as SOP vs occasional use, then the kids see it and they think they can do it. I've looked down and see groundmen cutting firewood one handed... "You just did it up there!"

My problem is that we become to blase' with these tools.

 

[John464]

I don't see one handing dangerous unless your other hand is close to the one handed saw operation or above your head cuts.

If you are reaching out at a stretch and do get kick back as long as your hand or head is not within kickback range it is safe practice for the seasoned climber. This is an advanced judgement based on how well you know your saw and it's responses. A MS200t will only kick back so far, definitely not three feet back towards you. I use a MS200t while up in air and know what positions could potentially cause kickback or the saw to skate. When this is noted the other hand is no where near the cut. If you lay into the wood properly with the saw you will not get kickback. Once into the wood, if there is a need to push, grab, or hold this can be done since the saw is within the cut. Knowing what the saw can/will do exiting the cut also requires saw experience foresight.


There is definitely a time and a place for one handing, but remember without the complete understanding of it's potential pitfalls, you will get bitten.

 

[RedlineIt]

Spending years onehanding on a regular basis and you increase the chance for carpal tunnel and chronic tendinitis.

JPS, a subject near and dear to me.

Having consulted with Surgeons, General Practitioners, Occupational Therapists, and rehabilitation Nurses, I can tell you that there are many other things we do that spell Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Chronic Tendonitis.

Drum Roll...

#1. Fruit Tree Pruning. Ten to fifteen feet of the ground, making 500 secatuer cuts per day.

#2. Hedge shearing. An ocillating plate on an eight foot stick, on a ladder. Google Reynauds syndrome.

#3. Climbing Rope/ Footlocking. Repetative hold /release /advance very tough on tendons and wrists, not to mention knees.

#4. Operation of large saws. Vibe damping is about as good as it can get, but it will still get you.

#5. Repetative use of long pole pruners. Ergonomically, you are better off to climb and cut.

----


There is more, but I am just saying that one-handing is not a problem as far as tendonitus or carpal tunnel is concerned.

And you can quote me on that.


RedlineIt

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

JPS, a subject near and dear to me.

Having consulted with Surgeons, General Practitioners, Occupational Therapists, and rehabilitation Nurses, I can tell you that there are many other things we do that spell Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Chronic Tendonitis.

So, are you saying it is no use minimizing the exposure, or that one should limit that exposure whenever possible?

I had a P.T. tell me that one can ease the strain of hand pruning and other repetitive tasks by making sure that the hand and wrist are in-line.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Worker's Comp

In BC, worker's comp is controlled by the government. The employer has to pay premiums based on the industry risk and on past claims. That is, if a company had a claim, which for example cost worker's comp $100,000 in medical expenses and living allowance, that $100,000 is charged back to the company in the form of a higher premium.

Yes, this has killed many a small company. However, if a company has a strict, written and enforced policy for say, no one handing, then if you were cut yourself one handing, then the company will dispute the claim. It is highly likely your claim would be denied or delayed and the worker would be SOL.

 

[RedlineIt]

So, are you saying it is no use minimizing the exposure, or that one should limit that exposure whenever possible

JPS: Minimize our exposure to what? Damn dear everything we do has medical issues relating to wrist, carpal tunnel, tendon overextension, including pulling out the Silky to finish the cut. Handsaws are no panacea as they exhibit there own set of repetative motion considerations which can relate up past the wrist to elbow, shoulder and neck.

Speaking specifically about onehanding a top-handled saw and carpal tunnel or tendonitis, it is the least of our worries. They are well-balanced tools with the best vibe damping technology available.

If you want to minimize your exposure to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome or Tendonitis, look to the built-in disadvantage of your Felco's or the unbelievable vibration of your hedge shears.


RedlineIt

 

[tree md]

Another potential health issue is torn rotator cuff problems. I have to admit that one handed saw operation was SOP on the crew I learned to climb with. After a few years of one arming saws I developed rotator cuff problems. They gave me some exercises to do that seemed to repair the damage done. I have no problems with pain in my shoulder anymore but that taught me to develop better, safer climbing practices. Like JPS said, position, position, position. I carry 2 lanyards with me now, a flipline and a buckstrap to help me position better before I cut. I have a young climber working for me now that always wants to cut from awkward positions. It drives me nuts. I keep telling him they call it a positioning saddle for a reason. To get in a good comfortable position before making a cut. We all know that it is not always possible to get in a comfortable position when we cut and sometimes one handing a saw is a necessity but I will spend extra time to do so when possible. As apposed to cutting from an awkward position for the sake of speed.

 

[newguy18]

One handing so easy a caveman can do it.

 

[D Mc]

Check out this link for some interesting information re safety/ergonomics and the complexities of how both are intertwined. They also address the training vs experience conundrum. www.treemettlenexus.com

I started using 020s when they first came out but recently (2 years ago) switched to the 192. I think it is only a pound lighter but OMG does it make a difference at the end of the day. It's like my current climbing set up: an 11mm Velocity, run thru an adjustable false crotch with a Rock Exotica swivel pulley down to my Lockjack. Unbelieveable, totally frictionless. It allows me so much more energy to devote to the job at hand rather than using up my energy getting from position to position. Would I put a rooky on it? No way.


Like I (and others) have said: Do what you can, not what you can't.

DMc