out w/ the veggie, back to petro base

[okietreedude1]

Last spring there was a long winded thread about useing veggie oil in chainsaws. There was some good ideas put forth and I thought what the heck, Ill jump on it too.

so off to sams I went. spent $35 on the member ship, bought 2 5-gal jugs oil. Went through them over time and bought 2 more. Everything seemed to be going good. Id had the occasional comment from customers as to the 'odd' odor and we'd explain what it was. No one had ever heard or thought of useing it. Most even liked the idea.

yesterday, I decided to go back to the old petroleum based oil. Why??? you might ask.

Well, Now that Im replacing a worm gear (oiling mechanism) for the second time on my ms290, my echo 370 quit oiling (its 3 months old), and my echo 3400 quit too about a month ago, I figure its because the veggie crap is gumming them up. As I was taking apart the 290, the thing was so gummed up w/ veg oil, i couldnt blow the crap out. I had to get a little screw driver to scrape it out. On top of the ms290 worm gear, i broke the cluch trying to get itoff, so now Im out of commission for 2 days waiting on parts + the cost of the new part.

In the long run, I figure Ill probably end up saving money useing the original stuff. No yearly membership fees, gas bill getting to the place (sams-1.5 hr drive), worm gears, and the list goes on.

No hard feelings to those that have done the unscientific research and promoted the idea. It was interesting while it lasted, but now, im out. Fortunatly, I dont have 10 galls of oil sitting around. I was getting pretty low on the veggie.

 

[Elmore]

Canola

You should have used canola oil not olive oil!
Canola has a lot of science backing it up as a lubricant of metal.

 

[okietreedude1]

I didnt use olive. Regular veggie. And when the other oils are $6 per gallon, why switch to begin with?

 

[hornett22]

i know why.

the eco nazis convinced you it was the right thing to do.

as usual,they were wrong.

 

[2FatGuys]

Okie... PLEASE tell me that no veggies gave their life for your oil experiment! Veggies have rights too, you know...

 

[sloth9669]

i want to help

Iam the same i would love to use veggie vs oil for the 10 so gals i go threw a year each bit will help.....but i dont want to break anything...so simple yes or no does veggie or conola oil work >

 

[appalachianarbo]

I have used veggie oil for the past two years. I haven't noticed a difference in lubrication, parts wearing, or cutting, etc. I really like the idea of cheap biodegradeable bar oil, but here's what I have noticed:

-Veggie oil gums everything up
-Veggie oil attracts a whole lot of dirt and sawdust
-If your saw sits for more than a few days, the chain and sprocket will sieze until you either heat it with a heat gun or spray the whole thing with degreaser.

For these reasons, I'll be switching back to regular bar oil. Veggie is too much of a headache.

 

[joecool85]

I have used veggie oil for the past two years. I haven't noticed a difference in lubrication, parts wearing, or cutting, etc. I really like the idea of cheap biodegradeable bar oil, but here's what I have noticed:

-Veggie oil gums everything up
-Veggie oil attracts a whole lot of dirt and sawdust
-If your saw sits for more than a few days, the chain and sprocket will sieze until you either heat it with a heat gun or spray the whole thing with degreaser.

For these reasons, I'll be switching back to regular bar oil. Veggie is too much of a headache.

Would it be as much of a problem if you ran veggie oil then a tank of regular as the last tank? IE - you're cutting all day, you fill up your oil tank 5 times lets say. For the first 4 you run veggie oil, for the last 1 tank you use regular B&C oil. Would that keep the system clean? You'd still be drastically cutting down your B&C oil usage, and I think it would keep the saw operating properly since it would flush the vegi oil out before putting the saw down for the day. It seems that the only bad side of using vegi is what happens when it sets.

 

[Sprig]

Still using canola oil, no problems, no gumming up issues, nada so far in about 30 tanks of heavy usage. Canola is not veggie oil btw and if anyone took the time to read the Canola threads you'll find that corn & veggie oils do have sticky problems and should be avoided. I'll keep using it till something breaks I think.



Serge

 

[Stihlboy088]

just ain't the same

I don't know i've never risked putting any thing that wasn't petroleum based in my saws ever. but when i used to work for a fuel company in my area and had to go and pump out and clean biodiesel tanks the amount of sludge and yak at the bottom of those tanks was unbelievable. 1 2000 gallon tank which i pumped out after it had been fueled 5 times had 7 inches of sludge at the bottom, it clogged my regular pump on the truck 6 times after that i switched over to the filter buggy that sucked most of it out. when i went to clean the filter in the buggy i took one look at it and went and ordered a brand new cartridge it just wasn't worth the time to clean it out. we also recieved many complaints about equipment losing HP and having to replace parts because of the fuel.

Dave,

 

[appalachianarbo]

the amount of sludge and yak at the bottom of those tanks was unbelievable

Were these tanks run on petroleum diesel before switching to biodiesel?

From biodiesel.org:
"Biodiesel provides a cleaning effect and does have a tendency to dissolve or loosen some sediment that can be deposited in tanks and fuel systems from years of conventional diesel fuel or home heating oil use. This cleaning effect is dependent upon the blend concentration of biodiesel."

Also from biodiesel.org: "Use of tanks or lines made of brass, bronze, and copper or lead, tin, and zinc (i.e. galvanized) may cause high sediment formation and filter clogging and are not recommended."

The sediment is the main reason I can't switch to biodiesel for heating my house (not that I use oil all that much - I've got a lot of wood to burn!). I rent my house, and getting a new, clean oil tank is not an option.

Would it be as much of a problem if you ran veggie oil then a tank of regular as the last tank?

That's probably a good idea. I'll also have to try canola, like sprig said. I've been using vegetable oil (and I'd have to check and see what the oil content is). Maybe I won't abandon veggie just yet...

 

[Stihlboy088]

Tanks

These tanks were actually portable fuel tanks which i built (when i was still with the company every thing had to updated to code before some date but that was almost two years ago) the one I spoke of we built specifically for biodiesel storage only. The tank was a single wall set-up with black iron fittings and a 3.5 hp Briggs and Stratton engine with centrifgul pump the tank was leased out to one of the local cranberry marshes. we also had a had a larger bulk storage tank for biodiesel at the bulk plant, alot of people in the area didn't quite trust straight bio, so they would order blends 15% Bio 85% off road diesel etc. never really tried to get to much into bio, but i wonder how everyone out there is feelin about the newer switch from low sulfur on-road to ultra low sulfur on road? everything that i run is off road so i haven't had that much experience with, it yet that is. sorry not tryin to steal the jist of this thread.

Dave,

 

[okietreedude1]

so simple yes or no does veggie or conola oil work >

YES

Would it be as much of a problem if you ran veggie oil then a tank of regular as the last tank? IE - you're cutting all day, you fill up your oil tank 5 times lets say. For the first 4 you run veggie oil, for the last 1 tank you use regular B&C oil. Would that keep the system clean? You'd still be drastically cutting down your B&C oil usage, and I think it would keep the saw operating properly since it would flush the vegi oil out before putting the saw down for the day. It seems that the only bad side of using vegi is what happens when it sets.

It may keep the system clean but ive never been able to gage when im about to be on the last tank for the day.

 

[pbtree]

the eco nazis convinced you it was the right thing to do.

as usual,they were wrong.

Exactly!

 

[Sprig]

"eco-nazis"

Hmmmmmm. Wrong crowd imho. Believe it or not there may be other alternatives to dino etc., don't be getting the picture wrong eh, people working around riparian zones and ponds might have a bit of good info to impart, don't Pooh-Pooh it, and as well there is an on-going critique with a variety of saws (including my wee ripper, now on its 3rd month of canola), so it may be prudent not to knee-jerk here, (I hear crow pie is good with sour cream.)

:greenchainsaw:

 

[Elmore]

I didnt use olive. Regular veggie. And when the other oils are $6 per gallon, why switch to begin with?

I was just kidding about olive oil...heh heh...pulling your chain so to speak.
Seriously though, that oil as you described could have been soy or corn or a blend. I have seen those in Sam's and resisted purchasing any. Instead I got the 5 quart Mazola canola oil and it seems to work well in fact better than petroleum based bar oil. I do run standard petroleum based bar oil periodically.

 

[Tree Machine]

Eco Nazi is a perspective. I feel most of us care about the environment, but to tag us with the label 'Eco Nazi' is pretty far-fetched.

Sure, environmental sensitivity is one thing, but primarily, we should come at it from the perspective of health, knowing we potentially breathe the stuff that flies off the bar in tiny, vaporized droplets. Also, sticky petro bar oil on your other gear, tools, clothing, hands, on the sandwich you handle, on your cigarette, in your laundry, etc.

I'm using veggie, still, 6 years later, same saws, same oilers, same worm gears. You DO still have to clean your saw, as with petro.

Worm gears and oilers go bad on saws that use petro oil, ask any saw shop tech.

I have never experienced a 'smell' coming from the oil while using it in a saw. Sounds like things are really, really hot. One should investigate the 'why?' on this.

On my big saws, the 24" and 36" bars, I have tuned the oiler back to where two tanks of gas uses one tank of oil. I've found the lubricity is plenty ample at this rate. I still run the smaller saws at factory setting, though they could probably be tuned down.

So, we have one guy having a problem using non-commercial, homeowner echo saws on a less than full-time basis, another guy who exclaims that the eco-nazis are wrong who may have zero experience running vegetable oil in his saws, but knows how to express an opinion, a biodiesel reference that has zero to do with a chainsaw/bar system, though interesting (also, biodiesel is not vegetable oil anymore) and then a bunch of us who are using vegetable oil successfully, hundreds (or in my case, thousands) of tanks later.

Veggie oil does not make your saw maintainence-free. You still need to clean it occasionally and if that means using a mini screwdriver to dig out recessed areas, well, that's how its done with petro oil, too. Clean your saw while warm, that's what I do differently than when I used to use petro bar.

 

[Tree Machine]

Also, I'm not a 100% canola user. I get whatever's cheapest, soy, corn, whatever. Last weeek I ran out of veggie mid-job and ran motor oil for a couple tanks before going back to vegetable based oil.

I'm not a purist. I really look at all sides. If veggie was wrecking my saws, I would not use it, and I would not promote it. There is no motive here to be disingenuous in any way.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Well put TM. I haven't had any problems with my ms200 oiling with veggie at all.

that eco-nazi comment is completely useless..............

 

[okietreedude1]

So, we have one guy having a problem using non-commercial, homeowner echo saws on a less than full-time basis,

I hope this wasnt directed at me. If Im 'less that full-time' running 2 guys and me 40+ hrs per week, 1 gal oil per week, 1 gal gas everyother day; Id like to know what full time is.