Outdoor wood stove questions

[abikerboy]

I have installed an outdoor forced air wood furnace, and I am seeking a little advice. Here is a link to my unit: I have the model E-1000 with the bi-metal manual draft http://www.airstove.com. I have installed this unit with it's own hot air and return system into my house, but I have wired it so that when the wood furnace blower comes on, my central furnace blower also activates to help distribute the heat throughout. Problem I'm having is regulating the temp so that the house doesn't get too hot. To help with this, I have installed a thermostat controlled damper system for a waste heat dump. On a call for heat, the wood furnace blows into the house as usual, but when the thermostat is satisfied, a damper closes to block airflow into the house. At the same time, another damper opens, dumping the extra heat outside. My question is would there be any harm to allow the hot air to dump into the crawl space, or does it need to dump to the outside? I've measured the air temps from the wood stove as high as 240, but the average is usually under 200. My house is around 1300 to 1400 square feet, with a vapor barrier on the ground and on the structural flooring of the house. The crawl space is vented to code, and I do have a make up air source to replace the air in the house as it dumps waste heat to the outside.

 

[laynes69]

I wouldn't think dumping hot air into a crawlspace is a good idea. Looking at the specs of the furnace, I don't understand why you would have something that big installed into a house that size. It's grossly oversized and when the heat dump activates, it's wasting wood. I think no matter what, that house will remain overheated without the dump. What kills me is the furnace states it's up to 1200 sq.ft. But shows up to 200,000 btus.

 

[abikerboy]

I wouldn't think dumping hot air into a crawlspace is a good idea. Looking at the specs of the furnace, I don't understand why you would have something that big installed into a house that size. It's grossly oversized and when the heat dump activates, it's wasting wood. I think no matter what, that house will remain overheated without the dump. What kills me is the furnace states it's up to 1200 sq.ft. But shows up to 200,000 btus.

I bought the unit based on square footage, and never researched the btu requirements. I know...my bad. On the coldest of days, say 20F or below it works perfect with a window or two cracked open. I can also damper it down to hold a reasonable temperature, but I don't like burning it so cool. It leaves too many deposits when it's dampered down. I can build a small fire, which also makes holding a comfortable temp easier, but then it seems that I'm always running in and out to feed the stove. I was hoping that with the heat dump, I could toss in a good solid block of wood, and "bank" the fire down for the night. When it is banked down at night would be when the waste heat dump would really help the most, as when the nightly fill burns down to the coals is when the house gets unbearable.

 

[dave_dj1]

I would just do the smaller fires and feed it more often, kind of a pain I know but there is no sense dumping firewood into the atmosphere.
I have a home built one for my garage and I have to keep a close eye on outside temps, it's nearly 40 deg here this morning so today will be just small fire.
I don't try to run it 24/7 but on occasion I do like to keep it going all weekend.
Another thing I would do is try disconnecting the indoor blower from coming on with the outside blower, the heat will still makes it's way through the house via natural heat rise/gravity. It may make it more tollerable.

 

[pook]

If heat dump into crawlspace didnt result in a fire or increased humidity, there's the chance that pulling air from upstairs will result in a vacumn which will pull air from crawlspace to the upstairs? Otherwise , the floor would get heated.
Maybe reducing the size of the firebox by adding firebrix would help your situation?

 

[Wife'nHubby]

Maybe reducing the size of the firebox by adding firebrix would help your situation?

Pook,

By replying as you did you must certainly be employed by the AirStove company. Might I ask in what department you work? What is your company title? How many years experience do you have with this type of appliance? Will you provide, in writing, that your suggestion will neither void the warranty on this appliance nor possibly cause personal property damage via altering the original equipment?

Shari

NOTE:

To quote the owner of arborist.com:

"TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Pook,

By replying as you did you must certainly be employed by the AirStove company. Might I ask in what department you work? What is your company title? How many years experience do you have with this type of appliance? Will you provide, in writing, that your suggestion will neither void the warranty on this appliance nor possibly cause personal property damage via altering the original equipment?

Shari

NOTE:

To quote the owner of arborist.com:

"TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable. This could include jail time or be at the very least financially liable. You are personally liable for anything you say on here or any other website!!! Since there seems to be so many posts with poor/dangerous information, I feel it has to be on purpose as nobody can believe many of the things that have been said, which includes the poster.
Thanks!!! Have a Happy, warm Holiday to everyone!! Also, Thanks to all that try to help others on here and have a genuine interest in making this a site full of good/useful information.

 

[abikerboy]

"TO ALL: After reading much of the information provided by Pook above, it seems to be misinformed and even dangerous in some cases. Please disregard any posts made by him before this post. I have informed him and will inform you all, if you are giving out bad information knowingly you will be banned from this site and if somebody gets hurt by your poor information, you could be personally liable.

I'm not trying to be a smart @ss, but after seeing several threads with this same sort of note, I must ask a silly question. Is there any way to make up some sort of disclaimer or wavier of liability? In my mind, because I do not know anything about hooking up a wood furnace like mine above, I really should have had a pro do the work, and I may have it gone over again by a pro at some point in the future. However, since I did come here asking for advice, the person who gives the advice should not be held liable if I burn my house down. If I knew a little more about what I'm doing, then I would be able to spot any bad advice, though in such a case I probably wouldn't be seeking the advice in the first place. What it all should boil down to is that if I cause a fire, then it is only because of my own stupidity for not leaving this type of work to a pro. I would like to have as many suggestions on my setup as posted in the op, and I will state here that if I create a problem with my setup, that problem is strictly on me. I will also add that after I make any changes to my system, I will not build a fire and go to sleep at night unless I know without a doubt that all is safe. I would rather build the first few fires to burn out before bedtime so that I can keep a solid eye on stove and duct temperatures, as well as temperatures of surrounding surfaces and surrounding air temps. Sorry for such a long post, but I really do feel that we all need to understand that we take each other's advice at our own risk. The liability is why so many people are afraid to help out anymore.

 

[Outdoorheat]

Heat Dump

Hello all,

I am an employee of Airstove and would like to say that the user pook is not an employee of Hopsco Energy Products. As far as abikerboy is concerned I can say he is a customer of ours and a very pleasant one to work with. With that said......

A motorized damper will not void your warranty in any way, as long as it is approved by Hopsco and tied into the existing electrical system and factory limits. I can not endorse or deny that dumping in the crawlspace will help the situation you are having with overheating. I will say that the natural draft units are much harder to control, as you are dependent upon the burn chamber temperatures to control draft feed and thus making it more difficult to control the temperature in the house. I have had numerous customers use heat dumps in the past, for situations where the outside temperatures require very little heat to achieve the desired temps in the house. (ie. warm weather climates, late fall, and early spring).

As with any wood stove, there comes a point where you have to decide fire or no fire, and learning this is achieved by trial and error. Waking up with an 85 degree house is not anyones idea of comfortable, nor is 55 degrees, but we have all done it at least once, therefor abikerboy will learn to control his unit after using it for a while. As a customer once told me "no one said this wood burning thing was easy."

to: abikerboy, please call me if you need help with anything at all. You have all my numbers.


OutdoorHeat

 

[wildwilly411]

:msp_mad: another person complaining about it being to hot in the winter, get naked and enjoy. just kidding, maybe no. burning wood like box elder helps alot because of much lower btu's. also maybe try unhooking your central blower

 

[Mike PA]

I'm not trying to be a smart @ss, but after seeing several threads with this same sort of note, I must ask a silly question. Is there any way to make up some sort of disclaimer or wavier of liability? In my mind, because I do not know anything about hooking up a wood furnace like mine above, I really should have had a pro do the work, and I may have it gone over again by a pro at some point in the future. However, since I did come here asking for advice, the person who gives the advice should not be held liable if I burn my house down. If I knew a little more about what I'm doing, then I would be able to spot any bad advice, though in such a case I probably wouldn't be seeking the advice in the first place. What it all should boil down to is that if I cause a fire, then it is only because of my own stupidity for not leaving this type of work to a pro. I would like to have as many suggestions on my setup as posted in the op, and I will state here that if I create a problem with my setup, that problem is strictly on me. I will also add that after I make any changes to my system, I will not build a fire and go to sleep at night unless I know without a doubt that all is safe. I would rather build the first few fires to burn out before bedtime so that I can keep a solid eye on stove and duct temperatures, as well as temperatures of surrounding surfaces and surrounding air temps. Sorry for such a long post, but I really do feel that we all need to understand that we take each other's advice at our own risk. The liability is why so many people are afraid to help out anymore.

Sure we are all responsible for our own actions. In the end, we are our own boss. However, some advice comes with greater risk than others. Furthermore, some people continually provide advice that is wrong as often as right, and is dangerous in some cases. Unless you know that persons history and have sufficient knowledge yourself, it can be difficult to discern what should be heeded and what should be discarded. This can be made worse by the apparent zeal and conviction of the poster. Also, some posters here appear to have a personal agenda that tends to skew their advice. There can be a lot of help available on this site, you just have to watch out for a few nutballs.

 

[pook]

Sure we are all responsible for our own actions. In the end, we are our own boss. However, some advice comes with greater risk than others. Furthermore, some people continually provide advice that is wrong as often as right, and is dangerous in some cases. Unless you know that persons history and have sufficient knowledge yourself, it can be difficult to discern what should be heeded and what should be discarded. This can be made worse by the apparent zeal and conviction of the poster. Also, some posters here appear to have a personal agenda that tends to skew their advice. There can be a lot of help available on this site, you just have to watch out for a few nutballs.

I resorted to ending most of my comments with a question mark in hopes of learning my POSSIBLE mistakes with properly addressed feedback which deals with the subject SCIENTIFICALLY instead of deferring to BS typified by the recurring requote of my DANGER! which defers from the topic as it avoids the topic.........vvv

 

[abikerboy]

:msp_mad: another person complaining about it being to hot in the winter, get naked and enjoy. just kidding, maybe no. burning wood like box elder helps alot because of much lower btu's. also maybe try unhooking your central blower

Lol!!! Best one I've heard yet! I should say that my general issue overall isn't with too much heat (not through the day anyway), it's with how to regulate that heat during the night. I can open windows, burn smaller fires, etc through the day, but in the early morning hours when the wood burns down to the coals is when I wake up to 80-85F house. I have also been reminded that I am burning wood (mostly oak and locust) that has been bulldozed and piled up, some of it for as long as 10-12 years, but what the hay...it's free, and I can pretty much cut it up and toss it across the fence onto my property!

 

[abikerboy]

Hello all,

I am an employee of Airstove and would like to say that the user pook is not an employee of Hopsco Energy Products. As far as abikerboy is concerned I can say he is a customer of ours and a very pleasant one to work with. With that said......

Thank you. Your company has been more than excellent to deal with as well!

A motorized damper will not void your warranty in any way, as long as it is approved by Hopsco and tied into the existing electrical system and factory limits. I can not endorse or deny that dumping in the crawlspace will help the situation you are having with overheating.

I have actually tied the dampers and the 24 volt transformer into my existing oil furnace. This way everything is low voltage, and it's all located in one existing place. To be safe, I did purchase the parts that I need to exhaust the heat dump to the outside.

I will say that the natural draft units are much harder to control, as you are dependent upon the burn chamber temperatures to control draft feed and thus making it more difficult to control the temperature in the house. I have had numerous customers use heat dumps in the past, for situations where the outside temperatures require very little heat to achieve the desired temps in the house. (ie. warm weather climates, late fall, and early spring).

I like the idea of the natural draft better, and especially in a situation such as a power outage. The heat dump damper setup is configured so that with a loss of power, the outside heat exhaust closes, and the damper into the house opens. This way, with a power failure, all I have to do is plug the woodstove into my generator, and I have heat. And as an added plus, natural draft means one less part there to maintain.

As with any wood stove, there comes a point where you have to decide fire or no fire, and learning this is achieved by trial and error. Waking up with an 85 degree house is not anyones idea of comfortable, nor is 55 degrees, but we have all done it at least once, therefor abikerboy will learn to control his unit after using it for a while. As a customer once told me "no one said this wood burning thing was easy."

to: abikerboy, please call me if you need help with anything at all. You have all my numbers.


OutdoorHeat

I think that the learning to control it all may be my biggest issue. I grew up on wood heat, but there is a big diff between that old cast iron stove sitting in the kitchen as compared to an outdoor wood furnace. I am hoping that by the time next winter rolls around that maybe I can burn all wood and not have to buy anymore fuel oil. I have access to all of the wood that I can get for free, so dumping a little extra heat wouldn't hurt too bad.

 

[pook]

i hate the idea of dumping heat as much as i like breathing fresh air= configure the system so that u can introduce cold fresh air thereby somehow?

 

[abikerboy]

i hate the idea of dumping heat as much as i like breathing fresh air= configure the system so that u can introduce cold fresh air thereby somehow?

I have been burning the wood furnace with a window open to allow cool air in. This works very good through the day, but at night if the fire burns out, the open window lets the house get too cool. I also should say to Pook, I do have the firebox lined with fire brick, but don't know if I would be brave enough to reduce the firebox down beyond what is recommended. The fire burns very clean down to about halfway dampered, and I'm not sure how clean it would remain if I were to reduce the physical size beyond what the design is. With the air bypass dampers installed, some of my experimenting with the amount of wood I feed it, and how often I feed it, the bypass dampers would probably only rarely activate (outside temp depending) through the day. I do need to borrow the tool again so that I can recheck my static pressure at the outlet on the wood furnace with the bypass both open and closed. Overloading a blower motor isn't really my idea of fun. I wish there was a way to dump the "waste" heat into my shed. Would make a very nice place to play with my tools and saws!

 

[pook]

simple system = powered damper is activated by inhouse thermostat. when its too hot, thermostat tells damper to open & open a passage to the outside air? Damper is located on cold air return to furnace?

MAYBE!= a duct is connected to the hot air plenum & connects to your shed. the duct has a booster fan which is activated by the interior thermostat which blows when interior is too hot. Heat goes to the shed. BUT! ductfan will create a vacumn in the rest of the system which could be relieved by a properly cracked window if needed. Shed would pressurize so it cant be airtight.......Lotta factors @ play & THESE ARE ONLY IDEAS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.......good luck

 

[abikerboy]

I need to learn what I'm doing!!!

Here is what I've learned so far, and I'll admit that I don't know as much as I thought I knew;

1- The size of the stove is fine, but I do need to learn to build a proper fire. Just because the stove will hold 5 or 6 round logs doesn't mean that I need to load it as such.

2- I need to learn that I can damper the fire down more than I have been. I need to learn to watch smoke levels, and to learn where to set the air for a lower burn without going too low.

3- The wood that I'm burning is so dry that it's always going to burn hot. Suggestion is to mix in some good seasoned wood, which will burn slower and cooler.

4- I need to eliminate a couple of 90 degree el fittings in my hot air duct, and to replace them with a very gradually turning 45 or less.

5- I need to strech out my flex return air duct, or preferably replace it with solid for smoother air flow. Better air flow and volume will lower the air discharge temperature slightly.

6- I know that 4 and 5 really isn't related to my problem, but they will make everything last longer.

7- The air damper and heat dump is fine now, and I do have it dumping through the foundation to the outside, however I've been told that once I learn to control everything that I will probably want to disable the heat dump. Easy enough as all I need to do is flip a switch.

8- Let the fire burn out and use my central heat on calm days that the temp is above freezing. By my guesstimate, this should still knock my fuel oil use by better than half, and as I learn more with the wood furnace, I can knock my use of oil even more.

I know some of these are common sense, and some of these suggestions have been made by you guys, but as of now this is where I stand after my tips from a pro. For Pook, I have been told not to modify the size of the fire box with extra brick, as it very well could upset the balance of the operation. And I'm not knocking your suggestion either. I just figured that you are trying to learn just as I am, so I thought I would pass that along. Any more suggestions I will welcome as well, and Outdoorheat, if you're here, please read over these as well.

 

[dave_dj1]

I would say you are learning all the time! It does take some getting used to and being familiar with the equipment, temps, wood, etc. I had to let my outside stove go out today, it would have 100 in the shop, nice and pleasant 60 for most of the day.
Keep up the good work :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[pook]

not to modify the size of the fire box with extra brick, as it very well could upset the balance of the operation.= vague comment. pook would recall mfr. & talk to engineer so to get how it would change. Also ask if your ducting scheme voids the warranty& it might where the pressure zones might be affected.