OWB blower/temperature controler

[fletcher0780]

I was searching around today for a solution to my Shaver fan control aqua stat problem. My temperature seems to be bouncing around drastically and I thinks it's because the aqua stat that controls the blower attaches to the outside of the tank and does not directly contact the water within. It seems that the aqua stat does not get a fast enough reading to shut off the fan, and I cant set the on/off temp independently so if I lower the adjustment to keep the water from getting over 200* on the high side, it will drop to 140* on the low side. This controller seems to address that issue, it allows me to set the on and off point independently and has a probe I can either drop in the vent, or the access panel for domestic water coil before sealing it with hi-temp silicone.
http://www.iaqsource.com/product.php?p=ranco_etc-111000&product=110270

Is it possible that I'm fighting an uphill battle and the reason I'm having so much trouble keeping a consistent temp is because it's still warm out and I have very little draw on the unit? Here's a pic I took of my boiler from my front door. I'm heating approximately 3000 sq.ft. in my house and 1700 sq. ft. in my garage (including an above garage apartment). This picture was just after I started her up with the aid of a little cardboard and drain oil, hence all the smoke. Once it gets going there is very little smoke:

 

[Butch(OH)]

Are you saying that when you set it to come on at 140 that the draft fan does not shut off until 200? or are you saying the water is getting to that temp after the fan shuts off? big difference.

I put a lot of wood in my woodmaster and am drawing little to nothing from it the temp will climb 15-20 degrees after the fan shuts off. The "fix" for that is to either not worry about it or not put in 3 times the wood needed for the needs. If your actual spread between fan on and fan off is 60 degrees you have an aquastat problem. Most run 10-15 degrees that I am aware of. The electronic aquastats are nice, woodmaster calls theirs the ETC system, you can do a lot with one of them.

 

[fletcher0780]

No, if I set the aquastat to turn on at or below 150, the fan will shut off at 160. The problem is it takes a lot longer to heat the water jacket up to 160 compare to heating the actual water. Where it gets tricky is, eventually the two will eve out so I can't try to "trick" the system by assuming a 10-15* difference between the jacket and the water temperature. I think I need a more accurate way to check the water temperature than what is provided. Do you know if woodmaster sells their control system separately? If I don't worry about it, I boil water, I haven't been able to find that magic amount of wood to keep from boiling but also keep from going out.

 

[pipe76]

Should have bought a Central Boiler!

 

[fletcher0780]

Should have bought a Central Boiler!

I don't have as much money as you

 

[Butch(OH)]

No, if I set the aquastat to turn on at or below 150, the fan will shut off at 160. The problem is it takes a lot longer to heat the water jacket up to 160 compare to heating the actual water. Where it gets tricky is, eventually the two will eve out so I can't try to "trick" the system by assuming a 10-15* difference between the jacket and the water temperature. I think I need a more accurate way to check the water temperature than what is provided. Do you know if woodmaster sells their control system separately? If I don't worry about it, I boil water, I haven't been able to find that magic amount of wood to keep from boiling but also keep from going out.

I am thinking that the outer boiler jacket temps are going to be real close to the water temps but I am not a scientist. I am not sure if Woodmasters probe goes in the water or is stuck to the shell, never had a reason to look under the insulation. It sounds to me like you may have an air leak causing combustion to continue, check out the door gasket and ash pan door (if ya have one). It really isn't rocket science to feed my Woodmaster and I wouldn't think yours would be either. If I stuff it pretty full of wood on a wamer day the temp has risen to 196 with a fan shut off temp of 175. (another nice thing about the ETC is it records hi and low temps ) I think the Woodmaster controls are available as parts.

 

[fletcher0780]

No air leaks, if I kill power to the blower the fire goes out. I'll keep working at it.

 

[Mister Twister]

Do you run your circulator pump or pumps 24/7? I was considering a Shaver before I put a down payment on my CB 5036. In my research talking to Shaver owners it seems to be popular to boil water in them and use a lot of make up water. (Hence the make up valve right on the front of the boiler.)Some seemed to think it was because they get hot spots in the water jacket because they were not circulating water all the time only when they call for heat.(Recommended setup in manual.) Some said they started circulating the water 24/7 and also using bigger circulator pumps to cause more flow in the water jacket. Seems they don't move the water in their jackets to well maybe a design flaw. Some say they corrected it by adding a longer return pipe or something to that effect on the earlier models to cause more turbulence in the water jacket. (Should be already on newer models I am told.) I decided to go to the old tried and true model that people I know are using with out problems for a little more money. Hope this helps and good luck with your problem.

 

[NC4AB]

I replaced the old Honeywell aquastat on my Hardy H2 with the Ranco, very pleased so far.

 

[ShaverFurnace]

Central Boiler fan?

Should have bought a Central Boiler!

Hi! I don't believe Central Boiler has a forced air fan to control (no forced air draft on most models) and so no thermostat is needed - for a fan that's not there.

Best regards,

Ben

 

[ShaverFurnace]

No water boiling problems when instructions are followed.

In my research talking to Shaver owners it seems to be popular to boil water in them and use a lot of make up water.

...Some said they started circulating the water 24/7 and also using bigger circulator pumps to cause more flow in the water jacket. Seems they don't move the water in their jackets to well maybe a design flaw. Some say they corrected it by adding a longer return pipe or something to that effect on the earlier models to cause more turbulence in the water jacket. (Should be already on newer models I am told.) I decided to go to the old tried and true model that people I know are using with out problems for a little more money. Hope this helps and good luck with your problem.

Hi!
We have used a "tried and true" method for 36 years with great success!

The issue with the water jacket actually arose when people were putting much bigger pumps on the furnaces, than was needed. The pumps would actually pull so much water with such force that it would suck the water past the rear plate, pulling the cooler water from the inlet instead of it circulating around the firebox.

We normally have very few boiling problems because we have a LOT more water above the firebox than most manufacturers.

When we had reports of water boiling, it was ALWAYS found that people were not adjusting the door on the fan to control air flow when the fan was off. The instructions weren't being followed and the door was left wide open, so the fire would never die down when the fan went off.

We have found that placing the pump at the bottom of the boiler, instead of higher up, eliminates 100% of any of the minor water use problems that may have existed.

I hope that answers your questions.

Best regards,

Ben

 

[ShaverFurnace]

Defective thermostat

Hi!

The thermostat may be defective. We can send you another one at no charge.

It's the same thermostat used in hot water heaters and they are nomally very accurate and work off of tank surface temperature too.

Best regards,

Ben

 

[HUSKYMAN]

Hi! I don't believe Central Boiler has a forced air fan to control (no forced air draft on most models) and so no thermostat is needed - for a fan that's not there.

Best regards,

Ben

They still have a thermostat to control the opening and closing of the damper. I agree that if you are not circulating water 24/7 you should be

 

[fletcher0780]

Hi!
When we had reports of water boiling, it was ALWAYS found that people were not adjusting the door on the fan to control air flow when the fan was off. The instructions weren't being followed and the door was left wide open, so the fire would never die down when the fan went off.

We have found that placing the pump at the bottom of the boiler, instead of higher up, eliminates 100% of any of the minor water use problems that may have existed.

I hope that answers your questions.

Best regards,

Ben

Thanks Ben,
You were correct, my fan door was open all the way. I closed and just left 1/4 open and now have no problem maintaining between 180 and 190, I also wedged the thermostat against the tank better for more contact area. My friend ran an experiment with his CB and found that he uses significantly less wood by switching the pump rather than 24/7. While there are negatives to switching the pump, I believe they can all be addressed relatively simply.

[water freezing in the lines] Not likely, if it's cold enough to freeze water in your lines, your house should be calling for heat fairly regularly- but you could add a timer to turn the pump on for 1 minute every hour or a temp sensor on the most exposed pex to also activate the pump.

[pump damage] The pumps are rated for cycling. All the pumps in my house cycle and work fine. I also installed the pump inside my house in the basement because only the very expensive brass or SS pumps are rated for outdoor use and I used a grundfos pump.

[boil over] Once I followed the manufacturer recommendations with respect to the blower cover I sitting pretty. My friend with the CB has also not had any boil over problems.

[cold water shocking the system] I just don''t believe this 10 gallons of 60-70* water is not going to have a significant impact when added to 300 gallons of 180* water 4/10ths is an awful lot of metal to absorb/ displace heat.

If I'm wrong about everything, I can always move 1 wire and run my pump 24/7

Thanks for all the help.