OWB installation/parts questions

[OakBuster]

Well, two days ago it took me around 35 mins gathering up info and pics for my thread but somehow it didn't make it live? Anyways I'll make it simple.
I have a few questions regarding the insulated piping and heat exchangers.
I am getting a woodsman 405 from earthwoodfurnace.com - i picked this furnace due to it being local the half inch fire box and 25 years warranty.
The insulated pipe they sell is this one, pretty much fiberglass insulated r-30 pipes with 1" pex, 12/2 wire and 1/2 pex to fill up the furnace. It sells for around $9.50 a foot minimum 50ft order.

second choice comes from biomass direct about the same price too. Same 50ft minimum order.

So which one should i go for? The OWB will be around 30 ft from my house so I want to use the best stuff out there, so you guys know better insulated pipes?

Second question is about the heat exchanger. The one earthwoodfurnace sells are these two: $190 for side arm and $250 for coil.
side arm

and the coil one

and here is the one from biomass direct $349

so what do you guys think? also i just bought me a splitter from ebay, huskee 22 ton with boom and winch :msp_razz: wife is not happy with my purchases especially because we have to go pick it in Iowa, a 12 hr drive round trip - I keep telling her, it'll pay for itself

 

[jcl]

I just put mine together 2 weeks ago don't know if I'll give you all the answers your looking for but I'll try. I cut alot of corners thou
Central boiler pex I think was the best i know two people how used it in low wet areas with no heat loss. I went with 2. 1" line pex piping Ran my wire on the out side of the pex lines didn't want them all together. As far as a there line to refill the boiler I installed a garden hose water facet online in my basement pex before my 50 heat exchanger. And used it to fill my boiler from inside the house. I Set it up as incoming pex line comes into house to shut off valve into y filter then facet , temp gauge , taco 007 pump, then shut off valve into plate exchanger. return line hooks up direct to the heat exchanger.
So far it's been great! I didn't need a side arm I hooked my heat exchanger into my house gas furness witch heats the water tank just had to put a mixing valve in the hot water line

 

[projectsho89]

Regarding one of your potential vendors, see this thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/172303.htm

Notice the strong opinion offered by one forum member in post #12. I have no comment about his opinion as expressed, but this company does appear to have a lot in common with the old bankrupt Maxx-R company.

 

[gwiley]

WHatever you do, DO NOT SKIMP ON THE BURIED TUBE! For years I have been putting off replacing mine - I just hate to see snow melted above the trench with the OWN lines.

 

[Fifelaker]

Yes as stated above do not scrimp on pex I KNOW. The top water to water exchanger you can make for about $30 standard fittings from hd,lowes,most hardware stores if you can sweat copper is's a half hour job.

 

[Excavator]

Yes as stated above do not scrimp on pex I KNOW. The top water to water exchanger you can make for about $30 standard fittings from hd,lowes,most hardware stores if you can sweat copper is's a half hour job.

Just curious, as I would like to try to make my own water to water exchanger for dhw. Are the any plans available to show how this is done?

 

[Fifelaker]

Just curious, as I would like to try to make my own water to water exchanger for dhw. Are the any plans available to show how this is done?

I will have to look and see if I had plans or not but it is somewhat self explanatory once the parts are in front of you. mine is IIRC 2"X1"X1" reducing tee's if I can get my kid over here with a camera I will get pics.

 

[gwiley]

Just curious, as I would like to try to make my own water to water exchanger for dhw. Are the any plans available to show how this is done?

Looking at mine shows how simple it really is. The key is to achieve maximum contact between the hot water loop and the DHW supply, our HX accomplishes this by snaking them together side by side in a 12' long plate. Take a look at a few pictures on the web and you will have what you need. The pipes are sandwiched between metal plates and the space around them is filled with metal to lend some thermal mass to the unit as well.

Key design points:

- keep bends in the tubing mild to reduce impact on flow
- use sufficient wall thickness to survive erosion from 24/7 flow
- add thermal mass to improve efficiency of heat transfer
- use a dynamic mixing valve on the outbound side of DHW to ensure you don't burn anyone
- insulate around the HX (simple fiberglass batting wrapped with string is good)

If you can sweat copper fittings then it will come together quickly.

Having said all that, they really aren't very expensive, my bet is that you might save $30-40 in exchange for a fair amount of time spent building it (would take me a most of a Saturday I'd bet).

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Looking at mine shows how simple it really is. The key is to achieve maximum contact between the hot water loop and the DHW supply, our HX accomplishes this by snaking them together side by side in a 12' long plate. Take a look at a few pictures on the web and you will have what you need. The pipes are sandwiched between metal plates and the space around them is filled with metal to lend some thermal mass to the unit as well.

Key design points:

- keep bends in the tubing mild to reduce impact on flow
- use sufficient wall thickness to survive erosion from 24/7 flow
- add thermal mass to improve efficiency of heat transfer
- use a dynamic mixing valve on the outbound side of DHW to ensure you don't burn anyone
- insulate around the HX (simple fiberglass batting wrapped with string is good)

If you can sweat copper fittings then it will come together quickly.

Having said all that, they really aren't very expensive, my bet is that you might save $30-40 in exchange for a fair amount of time spent building it (would take me a most of a Saturday I'd bet).

+1

 

[J1m]

second choice comes from biomass direct about the same price too. Same 50ft minimum order.

To be completely honest, I think that first option looks like total crap. It looks like there's about an eighth of an inch piece of insulation wrapped around it and then snaked through the black pipe. Shoot, you could do that at home if you bought the materials! And if the black tube springs a leak some how - you're going to be heating groundwater!

The second one is hard to tell how it's insulated - but at least the manufacturer took the time to make it "look" like it's worth $10 a foot.

The stuff I have is this:

It's the same basic principle as the ones you're looking at - but it's insulated with expandable foam throughout the entire length of the 4" tubing. It was $14.00 a foot.

As far as your electrical wire, you can just run that through some conduit and bury it in the trench next to your thermopex (you can see it in my photo beside the thermopex).

If you install a valve on your household water supply and run it to the OWB return line - you can eliminate the need for that third piece of pex to supply the boiler with water. Whenever you need more water at the OWB - just open the valve. Have enough water? Close the valve. Simple. (And cheaper, too!) I don't have a picture handy but will take one and post it if you want.

 

[1harlowr]

Been 3 years now with my pipe. 110' from house. I insulated my 4- 5/8" pex, 2- 12/3 wires, and 1- thermostat wire with the black 6' foam slide on pipe wraps from Lowe's. Put this inside 4" electrical conduit.
Dealer I bought OWB from recommended this way and he's been installing 20+ years. I was concerned about water getting in the pipe and he said over 20 years he's done hundreds of installs and have never had a problem. He said not to use sewer pvc line or the flexible black tile.
Mine is a minimum 4' underground and I have very little heat loss over 110'.
Looking back I'd do it the same except use 3/4" pex as the fittings on OWB is 3/4". Even with the 5/8" I don't have a problem heating the 3000 sq ft house with a 100,000 btu water to air HX and dhw.

 

[blackdogon57]

To be completely honest, I think that first option looks like total crap. It looks like there's about an eighth of an inch piece of insulation wrapped around it and then snaked through the black pipe.

Agree. Burying water and electrical together is a bad idea. Do yourself a favor and go with the thermopex pipe. The extra piece of pipe to fill the furnace is not necessary. You can plumb in an inlet on the return line in your basement and add water from there.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Agree. Burying water and electrical together is a bad idea. Do yourself a favor and go with the thermopex pipe. The extra piece of pipe to fill the furnace is not necessary. You can plumb in an inlet on the return line in your basement and add water from there.

That's an ok idea, as long as a backflow preventer is installed in the makeup water line to prevent cross-contamination.

 

[Fifelaker]

With a valve on my dhw and a valve in my boiler return I made a short piece of garden hose to go between the two so That is my backflow preventer.

 

[beerman6]

and really how many times a season do you need to add water???? unless you have a Global Hydronics OWB with the great 20 year warranty....

 

[Bill Becker]

View attachment 207692

I found 100' of this early this year in Syracuse NY. It is 1" Dual Pex Microflex Coil preinsulated with poly urethane. Overall diameter is 5". It was $14.00 per foot. I've not been able to find any more. The end cap is from Central Boiler. The pipe and cap are very high quality. I'd like to find more pipe.

 

[OakBuster]

View attachment 207692

I found 100' of this early this year in Syracuse NY. It is 1" Dual Pex Microflex Coil preinsulated with poly urethane. Overall diameter is 5". It was $14.00 per foot. I've not been able to find any more. The end cap is from Central Boiler. The pipe and cap are very high quality. I'd like to find more pipe.

I think im gonna go with the one biomass sells. A friend of mine has 30ft left over from his prior install. Hes gonna sell it to me for 30bucks. Ill prob need like 40ft, ill just get a 4" corrugated pipe and use foam and R30insulation for the remainder. Some what out of budget,dealer charged me$250 for the delivery of the furnace to his place and $200 to my house, insane. Thats why im installating myself.