OWB v. Wood Stove

[yodayoda]

Now Ill give you a BIG 10-4 for that statement and add that you EPA stove guys are in the same group of scum as us boiler owners. You are TOLERATED for now because they need YOU to fight us as they phase in control. But you dont need to believe me, just follow the path of control in places where it started. Read about how a person cannot heat with a wood fire of a ANY kind before you come back and say BS Butch(OH).

Anyone who heats with a wood appliance of any kind should be arm and arm, not bickering over who puts a bit less stuff in the air.

Agreed, rep sent

 

[Spotted Owl]

Well my friend read what was printed out and was able to get to a computer to read the rest. He did some poking around, he found he can put in two stoves and buy a few trucks of wood and still have plenty of bucks left over.

He did like the info about the OWBs. Bottom line was the bottom line for him. Running out to fill the boiler in a 2"+ an hour rain storm wasn't appealing either, along with frequent long power outages in winter.

Thanks for all the info on this thread. If it hadn't been that much of a spread in cost he would have gone with an OWB.


Thanks folks.



Owl

 

[J.W Younger]

You can say whatever...I was quoting a study done by the state of N.Y. 4 years ago. They said owb's were 30% to 50% at best.

I go through 5-6 cords a 8 month heating season not 15-18 cords a heating season like you would in the same house with a boilr up here in northern Mn.
Multiply that over 25 years which the owb will not last,but if it did we would be talking on the low end 125 cords for my furnace vs. 375.
250 more cords......please.
a lb of wood is a lb of wood no matter how big the piece of wood is.


How big is your house? mine is 1500 sq ft not including my full finished basement that is heated and i heat my water, i live in Mi where it gets down to well below 0° many days. Heating with my OWB for the entire heating season i am using the same amount of wood that you are. Even on days when it never gets above 0 i only put wood in 2 times in a 24 hour period. I am just trying to understand why all the negative talk because i have not experianced any of the high usage or smoke that is complained about.

Same here, I burn 7-9 cord a year but thats operating year round and I have a wood stove in the shop. So, 6 cord for winter heat-1 cord for hot water and 1 cord burned in shop stove.Of course its not as cold here.
As far as OWBs not lasting 25 years, mines on it 21 year, so I better be careful cause it may explode any time.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Have your friend look into an indoor wood furnace like CrappieKieth sells. You can have wood with propane/natural gas/fuel oil backup, and heat the whole house.

I'm not endorsing the Yukon Eagle stoves, they are probably what I'd buy, just because if something didn't work, I could drive up there and put a boot in their posterior in less than two hours. There are a quite a few companies that make a similar product, do some research and let us know what he buys.

 

[Scootermsp]

Some of you cheering for your wood stoves forgot to add in the cost of having an extermination company enclose your house in plastic and fumigate it for termites. To each his own but I'll keep my mess outside. Besides I enjoy being out there processing my wood. No body bothers me or they know they will get recruited to help.opcorn:

 

[Paul61]

Same here, I burn 7-9 cord a year but thats operating year round and I have a wood stove in the shop. So, 6 cord for winter heat-1 cord for hot water and 1 cord burned in shop stove.Of course its not as cold here.
As far as OWBs not lasting 25 years, mines on it 21 year, so I better be careful cause it may explode any time.

Yup, right on with the corrected wood usage, and it IS cold here.
We heat 7000 sq.ft. (2 x buildings) with the OWB.
The house has 2 x air tights that haven't been fired in years since the OWB was installed.............don't need the mess or the heat ANYMORE, &
our house has never been warmer.
We looked into a duel fuel furnace @ 1st (as well as a ground source heat pump), untill we built the shop. Since we couldn't heat both buildings with either of these systems, we went OWB and have never looked back.
Our OWB = best thing since sliced bread & our neighbors didn't know we had one untill I told them.

Paul

 

[slowp]

Some of you cheering for your wood stoves forgot to add in the cost of having an extermination company enclose your house in plastic and fumigate it for termites. To each his own but I'll keep my mess outside. Besides I enjoy being out there processing my wood. No body bothers me or they know they will get recruited to help.opcorn:

My woodpile is 100 feet away. I put a few sticks in a plastic washtub on the porch. The only wood stored inside the house is kindling. If the weather forecast is for a wind "event" I'll make sure I have enough chunks handy so I don't have to go for a walk in the wind. I do have a Doug-fir nearby with some pitch tubes showing. It is closer than the woodpile so I might have bark beetles in my hardi-plank some day! To each their own.

 

[twofer]

To the OP glad we were able to help him make his decision.

Now Ill give you a BIG 10-4 for that statement and add that you EPA stove guys are in the same group of scum as us boiler owners. You are TOLERATED for now because they need YOU to fight us as they phase in control. But you dont need to believe me, just follow the path of control in places where it started. Read about how a person cannot heat with a wood fire of a ANY kind before you come back and say BS Butch(OH).

Anyone who heats with a wood appliance of any kind should be arm and arm, not bickering over who puts a bit less stuff in the air.

Seriously?

I may be mistaken but I don't believe anyone in this thread has called for outlawing them. A few, myself included, have pointed out some of their flaws that we believe they have. How about instead of issuing a call to arms in the form of a "divided we fall" proclamation we instead have a factual debate? You're only upping the emotional ante' in this thread.

 

[Spotted Owl]

Have your friend look into an indoor wood furnace like CrappieKieth sells. You can have wood with propane/natural gas/fuel oil backup, and heat the whole house.

I will pass this along. I would think he would be able to tap into his existing duct work from his removed elect furnace. This may be more to his liking depending on how the chimney come into play.



Owl

 

[rob206]

To the OP glad we were able to help him make his decision.



Seriously?

I may be mistaken but I don't believe anyone in this thread has called for outlawing them. A few, myself included, have pointed out some of their flaws that we believe they have. How about instead of issuing a call to arms in the form of a "divided we fall" proclamation we instead have a factual debate? You're only upping the emotional ante' in this thread.

Maybe you aren't, but there are some advocacy groups that sure are. Maybe not you in particular, but many gassers love to reference EPA studies(many of which are flawed) and site woodburing.org as sources for your information.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Seriously?

Serious as a heart attack my friend. Emotional? you be right there. I stand on what I said.

 

[MishMouse]

For good information on OWB check out ********** and its boiler room section.

Here are a few links I found on the banning of OWB and other wood burning appliances.

http://www.newsminer.com/news/2009/may/12/fairbanks-considers-eliminating-outdoor-furnaces/

http://www.**********/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/38217/

http://www.**********/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/37857/

http://www.**********/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/34685/

They are out there, trying to put a ban on everything we do.
Our goal is to give them less amunition.

So try to burn well seasoned wood, regardless of what you own.
Again I state If your salesman told you you can burn green wood efficiently in any wood burning appliance they are lying, everytime you burn green wood you are wasting wood, heat and you are creating allot of smoke. Be, it in a OWB, a Gassification, a EPA stove, a non-EPA stove or even a barrel stove. The less moisture the more heat you get with less smoke.

 

[CrappieKeith]

They are out there, trying to put a ban on everything we do.
Our goal is to give them less amunition.

So try to burn well seasoned wood, regardless of what you own.
Again I state If your salesman told you you can burn green wood efficiently in any wood burning appliance they are lying, everytime you burn green wood you are wasting wood, heat and you are creating allot of smoke. Be, it in a OWB, a Gassification, a EPA stove, a non-EPA stove or even a barrel stove. The less moisture the more heat you get with less smoke.

I'll second !

We all have different needs.
There are many types/quality available.


What I said was through my own expierences...some others may have different expierences.
To each his own....it's sorta our right as Americans.

 

[wampum]

Now Ill give you a BIG 10-4 for that statement and add that you EPA stove guys are in the same group of scum as us boiler owners. You are TOLERATED for now because they need YOU to fight us as they phase in control. But you dont need to believe me, just follow the path of control in places where it started. Read about how a person cannot heat with a wood fire of a ANY kind before you come back and say BS Butch(OH).

Anyone who heats with a wood appliance of any kind should be arm and arm, not bickering over who puts a bit less stuff in the air.

Butch, I have been burning wood fir a long time. My Dad burned wood and coal,before 1960,a lot of people burnt wood and coal. The seventies were what I would call the first energy crunch. I got out of the service and filled up at a service station in Ca. for 23 cents a gal. I started to sell stoves in 1976,and watched the first big stove boom come in. I sold Fishers,Alaskians,and Riteways.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Every year this thread pops up.
It always goes the same way.
I'm gonna railraod it....

Been hitting the bulls lately!

 

[wampum]

Now Ill give you a BIG 10-4 for that statement and add that you EPA stove guys are in the same group of scum as us boiler owners. You are TOLERATED for now because they need YOU to fight us as they phase in control. But you dont need to believe me, just follow the path of control in places where it started. Read about how a person cannot heat with a wood fire of a ANY kind before you come back and say BS Butch(OH).

Anyone who heats with a wood appliance of any kind should be arm and arm, not bickering over who puts a bit less stuff in the air.

Butch, I have been burning wood fir a long time. My Dad burned wood and coal,before 1960,a lot of people burnt wood and coal. The seventies were what I would call the first energy crunch. I got out of the service and filled up at a service station in Ca. for 23 cents a gal. I started to sell stoves in 1976,and watched the first big stove boom come in. I sold Fishers,Alaskans,and Rite ways. To keep abreast of things in the industry,I went to a seminar on wood heat at Notre Dame university in 1979. The professor who conducted the seminar,said the following about burning wood. If you take two typical trees,burn one and leave one to rot,you will obtain the same pollutants,burning them will create them faster,and rotting them will take more time. The main differences will be by burning them,will be heat(good thing) and smoke or particles escaping by burning. According to that professor,it is a myth to believe that burning wood makes more pollutants then rotting the same log. The pollutants only happen faster when burning. I believe that most of this anti burning is hype. Some people are upset with the smoke if it is near by,and in some cases rightfully so. I agree with what you said,and will add to it. There are all kinds of nut jobs out there. Some want to stop hunting,stop us eating meat,burning any fuel they feel is dirty. Some want all the lights turned off,they like to look at the dark. Some want extreme farming changes,that are putting farmers out of business. There are more and more of the nut jobs. I am for personal rights,as long as you do not hurt anyone else. I am glad to see people burning wood in any stove,more power to them. My only wish is that all of us would use as good a wood as possible,that means a good dry wood. You will get more heat,and for indoor stoves it is a lot safer. Burning wet wood,you do not get the BTU's. But like I said,that is my wish,if you want to burn green wood,that is your business. You will cut more wood,split more wood,and get less heat,dry wood is less work.

 

[giXXer]

Do not underestimate the beauty and simplicity of a free standing radiant wood stove. No electricty, no fans, no pumps, no ducts and the doors and the air control are the only moving parts. This system should still be running in 50 years!

I love my OWB, but this is a valid point. I do miss watching the fire in the house as well. I went with the OWB for all of the advantages mentioned plus we had a carpenter ant "attack" two years ago that almost ended my wood burning entirely (the wife went nuts, need I say more?). The ants and new carpet swayed our decision to keep the mess outside.

Sorry guys, but I have to throw OWB's under the bus for a disadvantage that has not been mentioned. You can't leave it unattended for any length of time in the winter. I do have propane back-up that will keep the house warm and also keep the boiler from freezing, but I hate to think of the cost of heating 400 gallons of water that is sitting outside with propane. It kind of defeats the purpose of heating with wood. Also, if you leave it for a couple of days the fire will typically be out and there is a pretty long recovery time depending on how cold the water gets.

Another point I'd like to address, the smoke. Most OWB's produce more smoke than an indoor wood stove. I agree. But it's the operator, not the stove. Since it is very difficult to burn green wood in a wood stove I believe a majority of the wood that gets burned is dried properly. With OWB's being able to burn almost anything and the inherent laziness of man, a nuisance is created.

Consumption: Last year I burned 28 face cords which equals 9.3 full cords. This year it will be closer to 10 full cords since I added another heater in the shop. I heat close to 2,200 square feet of house with skylights and vaulted ceilings to 72 degrees, all of the domestic hot water, the 26X28 garage all winter, and the 20X20 workshop. Since I have a dual outlet boiler I still have one outlet unused that will be hooked to a pole barn in the future. Heating just the house to 66-68 degrees and the hot water propane = $3,800. I can purchase (I don't buy it, this is just for the example) the wood delivered and stacked next to the boiler for about $800 to heat the house to 68 and heat the water. I roughly doubled my consumption by heating the garage and work shop. They may not be "efficient," but they are certainly economical. In order to heat all of this with stoves I would need 4 of them and would be constantly getting fires started and waiting for the heat (I know I would because I have done it).

I believe that wood stoves may consume less wood per year, but they also don't heat as much or as evenly. While you may only burn 5 cords per year in a stove you are typically relying on propane or oil to heat the remainder of the house and hot water.

What it boils down to for me is: I love to burn wood! I enjoy running chainsaws, being outdoors in the woods, heating with a renewable resource, keeping my money from the "man," saving thousands of dollars, and keeping my wife and child warm, happy, and very comfortable. Sound familiar? Whether you have an OWB or an inside stove I think the reasons will be similar for most. The fact of the matter is you and I have more in common than that neighbor that pays the propane bill and we should work to protect everyone's privilege to burn wood.

B.T.W. Our cabin will never have an OWB, we love the 35+ Y.O. cast iron wood stove. It's perfect for that application. My house will most likely never have another indoor stove, the OWB is perfect for my application. To each his own, depending on application, of course!

 

[giXXer]

WOW! Sorry about that guys! I guess I got a little long-winded.

 

[MishMouse]

+1

:agree2:

giXXer, good post.

A little long winded maybe, but with definitely words of wisdom.

 

[wampum]

Do not underestimate the beauty and simplicity of a free standing radiant wood stove. No electricty, no fans, no pumps, no ducts and the doors and the air control are the only moving parts. This system should still be running in 50 years!

Sweet, Tree,I like the fire. I have a Woodstock Fire View,like your Jotul,a great stove. I also have a Fisher in the basement,for when it gets real cold.