OWB's and lotsa wood.

[tld400]

No need for anything to get ugly. Bottom line, we all burn wood. Just in checking the posts on this it appears that most of the OWB crowd that have posted have larger square footages to heat, at least from what they are posting. Many of the inside unit owners have not said how many square feet they are trying to heat. I think that may make a difference. If you have a large home or one that is spread out the OWB may make more sense to be able to still use wood as a fuel source. My home in Maine was smaller and easy to heat fairly evenly with the inside unit, but the house I have now might have me scratching my head to try and heat with one unit inside, unless it was a boiler unit. My brother has a moderate sized home and he runs two indoor wood stoves. His reasoning is that due to the layout of the home one unit just does not evenly heat the whole house. Any indoor wood burners that heat large homes with one radiant heat unit?

My wood stove heats 2000 sq feet house. Woodstove is all the way in the front of house so I use a box fan on low to push heat to back of house and temp stays the same through out whole house. If I dont use fan its about a couple degrees cooler in back of house. House is well insulated too.

 

[mizzou]

Do you think it would be a fair statement that if you burn wood for heat regardless weather it is indoor stove or an OWB that a bigger percentage of people on this board have a back up generator then not? (I have one for the record) I believe that most of the people on this board you would be hard pressed to catch them with their pants down regardless of the situation thrown at them. Again just an observation on my part.

Your probably right' I have 2 generators and if I can't burn wood(current situation) I have plenty of propane. I hate the Forced air furnace heat compared to the wood burner though.

 

[tld400]

Your probably right' I have 2 generators and if I can't burn wood(current situation) I have plenty of propane. I hate the Forced air furnace heat compared to the wood burner though.

I hated the forced air heat. Ripped that out of house and put gas wall units in house but havent had gas turned on since I put woodstove in house. Best thing I ever did. And yes I have generator too. They are a must have in my book.

 

[hupte]

ive been burning in a home made owb for 3 years now and I'll never go back. in addition to what everyone else said, the thing I love the most is not having to worry about my house burning down if I leave for a few hrs. before this boiler I burned inside on and off for about 10 years. the last 4 of those years I used only the wood stove for heat. I'm burning almost exactly the same amount of wood that I did inside. then once I put heat in the 1200 sq ft shop I started burning 30 percent more wood. I really cant recommend listening to anyone who hasn't burned in both. just because I WAS ONE OF THE NAY SAYERS!! until I finally built my own. all in all my system and install cost me about $5000 and probably 300hrs labor. but after owning one i can c how ppl can justify spending $15000 on a system. i guess the most logical way for someone to decide what is better (other than listening to someone who has burned in both) is to try to find someone who used an owb and didn't like it. with the exception of someone who bought a cheap p.o.s. owb. the only other way to explain it is putting it in dollar terms. before i owned an owb if someone walked up to me and offered me 1000 dollars to never burn in an owb i would have jumped all over that deal. but after owning one i wouldn't take less than 80,000 to give up my owb. that's about what it would cost me to update my old drafty farm house to make it energy efficient enough to make burning propane cost friendly. i used to spend 3500 a year on propane, and that's keeping the house at 65. so no disrespect to the ones who only burned in an owb, or to the inside burners, more power to u guys btw. but if u haven't done both u'll really never understand.

so really the question to ask is if u have burned in both then how much would someone have to offer u to go back to burning inside?

 

[ziggo_2]

Wood furnace here.. I can get by loading only twice a day if i want. Its not anything fancy, but it heats the house. I can stay warm if the power goes out. The "mess" is in the basement, and im lucky to still have the old cellar door to the outside, so stocking up on wood is easy. I could not justify the extra cost to buy, install, and operate a boiler. They have there place, and its not here at my house.

I know people that have a OWB and it sucks. It goes through as much wood in one day as i do in a week. Its also a poor install and is not maintained very well, which has alot to do with its problems.

If you notice, those who complain about getting up to load their stove, or that its not warm enough are usually using junk wood, junk stoves, or bad installs.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Yay! The annual OWB vs stove thread!

I'm not anti OWB, might own one in a few years once I have a shop to heat as well. As it is right now, a stove is a better choice for me.

The pluses and minuses in my personal balance sheet:

OWB pros:
No wood in the house, no fire in the house.
Convenient. Just turn the knob for more heat.
Evenly distributed heat.
Longer burn times, especially with an oversized for the load needed unit.

Cons:
More wood used. (Depending on model)
Needs power.
Cost, especially to retrofit
Political issues, especially with non-EPA units.
Going outside at -20F to reload.

Stove pros:
Simple, generally work without electricity, etc.
Inexpensive (Unless you want a high dollar purty stove)
Ambiance. Give me Fire TV and I'm happy.
Efficient, depending on the unit of course.

Cons:

Wood and related debris in the house
Fire inside.
Uneven heat. (Actually a "pro" for me, I can go where I'm comfortable in the house)
More work, wood in the house, ashes out, generally smaller pieces needed.

There are more, but that's what comes to mind. Even if I do go the OWB route down the road, there WILL be a wood stove in the house. There's no substitute for a warm stove to back up to after a long day out in the cold. An OWB, even with radiators just doesn't take the chill out of cold bones like a stove does.

Long live wood heat, in whatever form you prefer!

 

[John R]

Do you think it would be a fair statement that if you burn wood for heat regardless weather it is indoor stove or an OWB that a bigger percentage of people on this board have a back up generator then not? (I have one for the record) I believe that most of the people on this board you would be hard pressed to catch them with their pants down regardless of the situation thrown at them. Again just an observation on my part.

I agree, people that burn wood for heat are more prepared for the worst of times, and are self sufficient.

 

[AIM]

Yay! The annual OWB vs stove thread!

Well somebody had to start it.:msp_biggrin:

 

[jh35]

Had a basement wood furnace for 12+ years now an OWB. I not argueing either way just subscribing.

 

[garyischofield]

major bonus

I'm using a cb e2300 owb.It has a healthy appetite for wood.The percentage of saleable firewood burned depends on my energy level,heat demands,and available time to stoke the boiler.I burn 95% junk wood.Chunks,punky/rotten,insect damaged,unsaleable softwoods/Poplar.Being in the firewood/logging business provides me with a lot of unsaleable wood.I had a neighbor who does tree work haul 4-5 cords of hybrid Poplar in 18-20" lengths to me.It required getting up at 3:00 a.m.to restoke the firebox on demanding nights.I do keep 8-10 cords of Black Birch and Oak firewood stacked as an insurance policy for demanding heat days.I am in the process of installing a woodstove(Jotul Elg)for the fringe heating seasons when the boiler is overkill.My electric bill is $50 a month higher in owb usage months.Overall,it's been a positive experience.The woodstove will add a degree of security for power outages.

 

[bowtechmadman]

It would take a considerable amount of money to entice me to go back to burning indoors. I've also burnt indoors and with an OWB. We could start the conversation at 100K, the only fire inside the house now is a fireplace burning on occasion for the ambiance.
Each to their own, been there done that I'll take my OWB.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

.My electric bill is $50 a month higher in owb usage months.

That's interesting as my electric bill goes down during the heating season. I have 2 meters here as my outbuildings/shop are on one and my house/boiler are on another. Shop usage goes up as I spend more time in there on projects as opposed to working more on outside things. Are you heating your water? That normally is an offset at least. How many pumps are you running? I run 2 constant and 2 zone pumps.


I've had both systems and like the OWB much more. As far as costs go, with total costs of system took 4 years to pay for itself. I'm on my 8th year now with it.

 

[Blazin]

It would take a considerable amount of money to entice me to go back to burning indoors. I've also burnt indoors and with an OWB. We could start the conversation at 100K, the only fire inside the house now is a fireplace burning on occasion for the ambiance.
Each to their own, been there done that I'll take my OWB.

Same here! I heat 3 buildings that add up to around 5000 sq ft, with a normal winter I usually burn 14 cord or a bit more. I drive up to it, throw wood in, shut the door, and I'm on my way....all in about 2 minutes. 7 years ago before the OWB, I was heating all three buildings with oil, 2200 gallons a season.....Right now that's 2200 x $4.11 = $9042 I'd blow muh head off if I had to chase 3 indoor wood stoves to do what the OWB does :help:

 

[Butch(OH)]

We are heating workshop and home with a 4400 Woodmaster for now the 6th season. Prior to that we heated the same spaces with an 80s Arrow wood stove (shop) and a Timbereze add on wood/coal furnace. I don't think we are using anymore wood now that before plus we are heating our domestic water. I will never go back to indoor wood heat, just the fact we can leave home without a thought about a fire is worth any small amount of extra wood we burn, if any. Wife has become used to never having smoke smell in the home, dust etc and says NEVER again will we burn inside, she wont even let me light the fireplace.
Without a doubt an OWB is going to burn more wood than a small woodstove that heats a room or two. Almost everyone who uses an OWB also heats the domestic water and most tend to think of that as a minimal thing but I can tell when the ole woman is washing clothes or somebody is in the shower by the number of times the OWB cycles.

 

[Turkeyslayer]

Any indoor wood burners that heat large homes with one radiant heat unit?

In our home one stove wouldnt cut it. We ran a wood stove and a fireplace insert exclusively for the last 4 years. On cold windy nights I would have to get up several times to load the stoves. Now when it is cold and windy I top the owb up before bed and wake up to a toasty warm house.

I have been there done that with wood stoves and personally I hope I dont have to go back. But to each their own.

 

[taskswap]

That's interesting as my electric bill goes down during the heating season. I have 2 meters here as my outbuildings/shop are on one and my house/boiler are on another. Shop usage goes up as I spend more time in there on projects as opposed to working more on outside things. Are you heating your water? That normally is an offset at least. How many pumps are you running? I run 2 constant and 2 zone pumps.

I've had both systems and like the OWB much more. As far as costs go, with total costs of system took 4 years to pay for itself. I'm on my 8th year now with it.

Ours goes up in the heating season too, but I don't think it's the pumps. They do draw power, but not very much - my Taco 007 draws less than an amp. Most furnace and wood stove blowers draw that much or more. I think our increase comes from spending more time indoors. More lights, more electronics, more appliances (stove is electric and we do more baking in the winter), etc.

I'll open the kimono here because I've kept close track of cost. All told I have just short of $7k into my install. That's the whole shebang, including things I would have done regardless of stove vs. furnace vs. boiler (stainless chimney liner and insulation). I got my boiler for $1700 off eBay. Yes, it's not EPA-rated but that wasn't in the cards. It also included the wood I bought - we're in a new house so I had to stock up. Four split/seasoned cords averaged $175/ea, three cords of log at $70/ea (not yet seasoned but there's some ash I may dig into in a pinch), and one cord I cut on the property early enough that it was seasoned by winter (free). So I had five cords laid down, which was less than I wanted but all I could manage in 6 months.

We're most of the way through the season now and we've burned 3.5 cords. Luckily it's been a warm winter, with plenty of 50-degree days, or we'd probably be back on oil now. In the future I'd like to have 8 cords down each winter, judging by our usage.

The house was on oil heat before we started. The rule of thumb says a fully seasoned cord is worth about 150gal of oil. So monkey-math against 8 cords would be 1200 gallons of oil, which I think is about right because our last house was a bit smaller and we filled a 250-gallon tank four times that winter. Around here oil is going for $3.90 a gallon, so that would be $4680/year for heating costs. (I said earlier it's a big, drafty house - we'll work on things like insulation and windows in future years.)

That means we'll be paid off and in the black in 2 years. No matter what you use - stove, IWB, OWB - wood is a great way to go these days if you're willing to put in the work. Keeps you healthy too. The only exception is natural gas because its price is so low - but I personally think that won't last, BECAUSE it's so cheap. Demand is going to go up for it, and they're going to be putting it into more cars and power plants. My personal opinion is that a product that largely comes from the same process as extracting oil can't go very long without moving to match the price of oil.

Thinking about it, I can't think of a better project. All the estimates say things like upgraded windows, solar, etc. have paybacks in 5-10+ years. A payback in 2 years is huge. I did not value my labor in the equation, but I believe that's a wash anyway because I needed the exercise, I enjoyed the work, and it was a family thing - everybody got involved. There are benefits there that make up for the work.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Ours goes up in the heating season too, but I don't think it's the pumps. They do draw power, but not very much - my Taco 007 draws less than an amp. Most furnace and wood stove blowers draw that much or more. I think our increase comes from spending more time indoors. More lights, more electronics, more appliances (stove is electric and we do more baking in the winter), etc.

I'll open the kimono here because I've kept close track of cost. All told I have just short of $7k into my install. That's the whole shebang, including things I would have done regardless of stove vs. furnace vs. boiler (stainless chimney liner and insulation). I got my boiler for $1700 off eBay. Yes, it's not EPA-rated but that wasn't in the cards. It also included the wood I bought - we're in a new house so I had to stock up. Four split/seasoned cords averaged $175/ea, three cords of log at $70/ea (not yet seasoned but there's some ash I may dig into in a pinch), and one cord I cut on the property early enough that it was seasoned by winter (free). So I had five cords laid down, which was less than I wanted but all I could manage in 6 months.

We're most of the way through the season now and we've burned 3.5 cords. Luckily it's been a warm winter, with plenty of 50-degree days, or we'd probably be back on oil now. In the future I'd like to have 8 cords down each winter, judging by our usage.

The house was on oil heat before we started. The rule of thumb says a fully seasoned cord is worth about 150gal of oil. So monkey-math against 8 cords would be 1200 gallons of oil, which I think is about right because our last house was a bit smaller and we filled a 250-gallon tank four times that winter. Around here oil is going for $3.90 a gallon, so that would be $4680/year for heating costs. (I said earlier it's a big, drafty house - we'll work on things like insulation and windows in future years.)

That means we'll be paid off and in the black in 2 years. No matter what you use - stove, IWB, OWB - wood is a great way to go these days if you're willing to put in the work. Keeps you healthy too. The only exception is natural gas because its price is so low - but I personally think that won't last, BECAUSE it's so cheap. Demand is going to go up for it, and they're going to be putting it into more cars and power plants. My personal opinion is that a product that largely comes from the same process as extracting oil can't go very long without moving to match the price of oil.

Thinking about it, I can't think of a better project. All the estimates say things like upgraded windows, solar, etc. have paybacks in 5-10+ years. A payback in 2 years is huge. I did not value my labor in the equation, but I believe that's a wash anyway because I needed the exercise, I enjoyed the work, and it was a family thing - everybody got involved. There are benefits there that make up for the work.

Well said, My paying it self off thing is slanted as well as I just included the houses fuel usage prior to me moving in. It's a family farm we've had for over 100 years but my grandparents used an oil burner. I added a 36' X 50' attached garage with radiant floor heat that the boiler does as well so that's a hidden bonus on the usage/savings.

If you have a source for wood, meaning it is only your labor/time invested in getting it, then that is a plus for a boiler. I'm 8 years ahead for wood now so I'm pretty well set. I still cut but it's ANOTHER warm fuzzy feeling knowing your ahead with dry fuel.

One commented about going out of the house in cold temps. I tend to go outside at least once a day anyway but like to sleep all night and not be cold in the morning. I did enough of that growing up and hated it. My boilers inside along with the years wood so it and I stay dry when feeding. To each their own and like someone said, it's about wood heat. MADE IN THE USA!

 

[cantoo]

I'm heating 3500 sq ft with a Hotblast, works good for us. In an hour I'm going to pickup an old Fawcett furnace to put in my half built shop. That furnace will be heating 1500 sq ft with 2 big doors and 10' ceiling, it'll be burning all my crap wood during the day and hardwood at night. I have lots of crap wood that isn't worth putting in my basement for the Hotblast. At some point I will build my own OWB because I also have another house on my property that I heat with electric. So I could be heating 3500 sq ft house, 1200 sq ft house, 600 sq ft shop and a 1500 sq ft shop. good luck doing that with oil, propane, electric or solar.

PS, OWB's are the assult weapon of the wood burning business, you don't really need one but they sure are nice to have. I would bet that looking at the Americans on this site that have OWBs at least 75% have a "assault" rifle. And if you look at us Canadians here I bet at least 75% have guns too. I already have the guns I just need to build the OWB. This should help the thread out.

 

[Kemper]

The nearest i can figure is that my OWB burns maybe 20% more than the wood furnace in the basement when it is cold. Also heating the domestic hot water, and getting 12 to 14 hour burn times.

I have burnt wood for years, the OWB is the best investment i have ever made, i would hate to go back to stacking wood then loading it up and throwing it through the basement window then restacking it again by the furnace, not to mention all the wood smoke and dirt in the house...

The heat is also controlled with an OWB, not one extreme to another, It's always nice and warm in the morning.

 

[jh35]

The nearest i can figure is that my OWB burns maybe 20% more than the wood furnace in the basement when it is cold. Also heating the domestic hot water, and getting 12 to 14 hour burn times.

I have burnt wood for years, the OWB is the best investment i have ever made, i would hate to go back to stacking wood then loading it up and throwing it through the basement window then restacking it again by the furnace, not to mention all the wood smoke and dirt in the house...

The heat is also controlled with an OWB, not one extreme to another, It's always nice and warm in the morning.

Our house is 75 F all the time now. The old "smoke dragon" might have it in the low 80's in the evening to mid 60's when I got up. The lack of mess pleases the wife although she keeps an eye on my tidy-ness outside.

I haven't got a handle on much wood I've used since the OWB fired up this fall.My basement wood stacking area held 5 cord and that's about what I used with the old furnace. Since we haul logs from the woods and do the cutting/splitting at the inlaws across the road, now I come home from work to see a skid steer bucket or two dumped by the OWB before I run out. Pretty cool.