Part-time firewood selling

[Philbo]

I know this has been hashed out before, but I thought I'd start another thread to get some specific feedback and maybe head in some directions that haven't been discussed in great detail.

Basically, I have a full-time job (retail mgmt) that doesn't pay enough for all the artificial stress it puts on me. I'm looking for other ways to supplement my income during different times of the year, so that I can ideally get to a place where I can work part-time and spend the rest of my time making some money doing things I actually enjoy and with my family (soon to have a 2nd child.) We also try to live in such a way that our monthly bills are offset to some degree by doing certain things ourselves (wood primary heat source, growing our own veg/pork, making our own medicines, etc.)

With that being said, I am working on a plan to start up a small time, part time kiln dried firewood business. I have calculated that I have space to store at least 30 cords stacked on our property at any given time without a) running out of flat ground to walk around on and b) still having the stacks be accessible by truck/trailer. I also have an idea/plan to build a low-budget, no electricity solar kiln with a capacity of at least 4 cords, more would be ideal. If I could average to sell 4 cords/month @ $250 for kiln dried, moisture content guaranteed to be below 20% firewood. That's a gross of ~$1000/mo. Net profit would depend on any possible cost for the wood, if bought in log length, and fuel, equipment maint.

I've thought for a while about the specific things that make the firewood sales business less efficient. Sourcing/hauling wood, splitting, stacking, moving/re-stacking if necessary, sufficient seasoning time. I'm not in a financial position to make all of those steps a breeze as far as equipment goes, but if I can use my brain to make the ones that don't cost much/any money more efficient then that's an advantage for me.

A cheap solar kiln with a decent capacity of wood seems like the only reasonable way to make the idea worth any while on any type of smaller scale. It can supposedly cut down the seasoning time by a huge margin (seasoned wood in a month instead of a year in the right conditions.)

At the moment there is a dormant, older mobile home occupying the spot on our property that I want to build the kiln, so step one is removing that (hopefully someone wants/needs a cheap/free mobile home if they can manage to pay to move it from here.) After that I plan to use some leftover telephone poles cut to length and tamped into the ground as corner posts for the frame of the kiln. I have some scrap 2x6 lumber in our barn that is not being used, but will mostly likely have to source some lumber from elsewhere to complete the frame.

The biggest expense I've run into so far is the polyethylene plastic for the roof/sides of the kiln (I just priced some reportedly really nice 12 mil UV resistant plastic enough for a 4 cord size kiln at around $200 after shipping.) I've done a bit of research and it seems like UV resistant poly plastic is the most cost effective solution for such a budget project. Polycarbonate is pricier normally and apparently loses heat faster. I could be wrong here, but it seems like polycarbonate (2 layer or more) would block out/reflect more sun and heat than a single 6-12 mil layer of plastic, but ?

I plan to leave about 6" of space open all the way around the bottom of the sides, as well as another 6" open at the top of the sides, with a bit of roof overhang to keep out the weather. The open spaces should hopefully provide the necessary airflow and ventilation, respectively, to rapidly dry the wood. 1 or 2 simple, hinged doors (also covered in poly) should be fine for loading and unloading.

I also am in the process of acquiring an older but solid hydraulic splitter (nearly free from father), selling my 1/2 ton 4x4 and hopefully replacing with 1 ton (little to no difference in value), and somehow getting my hands on a better trailer than the light duty trailer ( I have on permanent loan from a co-worker). That would give me more options for scrounging more in a single load and for delivery efficiency.

Long, detailed post, I know... but I'm just looking for feedback and at least 1 person to tell me that I'm not crazy for thinking this is a reasonable small time business plan.

Fire away!

 

[texastele]

Selling fire wood is a pretty good part time idea. I have some experience in this. I have no idea about the efficiency of a solar kiln, but you might look at cutting wood that is already down and seasoned. Of course I have no idea of the availablity of it in your area. You need to be careful about assuming that you will sell so much every month until you have an idea of what the market is like. Even then it can fluctuate wildly. Also, one ton pickups are nice, but they are beasts on fuel economy. Good luck!

 

[Philbo]

Appreciate the feedback, tele.

I'm always on the lookout for already down wood (even have an ad up on the local C list), but that's not something I can really depend on around here. It's spotty and inconsistent. Sometimes it comes in heavy with easy access, other times it's not even worth my time to try and get to where the wood is located (pretty steep slopes in these parts.) Seems like a combo of scrounging whenever I can and buying well-priced log loads might be the only reliable way to have a constant source of incoming wood.

I'd like to be in a position to not have to depend on it at first, until I built up a reliable customer base. I figure if I can be one of the very few in this area that sells truly seasoned firewood, then that's a better start than a lot of other folks doing it on the side.

As for fuel economy, I'm lucky to see 13 mpg with my shortbed 4.6L F150 and I can't really do *hit with it anyway. If I'm gonna get terrible mileage, I might as well be able to haul and tow most anything I want!

 

[texastele]

Having a good supply of the seasoned wood is always a problem-I am dealing with it again now. The guy where I am cutting now just falsely accused me of cutting up a quarter cord oak stump (!) and selling it as mesquite. He says that I owe him a quarter cord of mesquite to make up for it. I think he is running out of ideas to get free work out of me. Anyway...
That is terrible economy for your pickup. My 2000 f250 5.4l 4x4 was getting less than ten for a while, but after a series of repairs that I had to do I am now getting 10-12. I can haul anything I want to in it so i guess that is a good point.
What kind of wood do you have out there?

 

[Locust Cutter]

With a properly sized trailer there's a lot you can do with a 1/2-ton truck. Having said that, if you have to drive any appreciable distance, (for me that equates to over 50 miles round-trip) a 1-ton is costly but is ultimately more efficient in the end when attached to a much larger trailer than a 1/2-ton is built to take. I have done firewood on the side for years making $1-5K/year to offset my own burns and re-invest in equipment or pay other bills. For a long time I had a V6 F-150 and asked a lot more out of it than it should have done. At 110K it was still going but many things were nearing replacement.The F-350 Superduty that I used to own allowed me to get a lot more quantity for less total fuel over-all ( for a large quantity of wood) by virtue of it's capacities. It was a PITA though, in tight confines or *hitty conditions, but got about 13.2mpg with a 5.4 V8 2x4, 5spd drive-train. I am working on acquiring an '02 dually Superduty C/C, LB, 4x4 7.3PSD with a ZF-6spd. It gets better mileage than my old F-350 with a bit more load capacity and a lot more towing capacity.

Ideally I would have 2 separate setups: a 1 or 1.5 ton with a nice dump trailer (16-20' long) GN style and a small 4x4 truck (Toy, Ranger or Dakota as they no longer make the S-10 and the Colorado is a P.O.S.) with a 6x12' trailer. You might be amazed at the usefulness and versatility of a smaller 4x4 and trailer. They're also handy if you deliver and only have 1/2 cord at a time going out from a mileage perspective. The small truck will go places the big truck wouldn't dream of and the big truck will haul loads which would break the small one. Same as the 50/70 or 60/90cc saw plan. For now any splitter will do. If $$$ becomes available a S.S. or high-speed/capacity hyd unit with a 4-way wedge (or better) is a must from a time/productivity standpoint. I don't know how old you are or what shape you're physically in, but if you don't have tractor/skid-steer, get a heavy-duty furniture dolly. It will become your best friend for loading BIG rounds on a trailer w/o injuring your back. Beyond that it's the small details that add up like PPE, handling tools, consumables, etc. A few decent saws are a must for productivity and reliability.

 

[Philbo]

Well, I don't really get over 55mph around here (no interstates close by) and it's pretty much all either uphill, downhill, or side to side. More wear and engine/brake load in general driving around here. Best I've seen from this truck in these parts was 14.5 mpg driving back and forth to work completely unloaded the whole time (30 mile round trip.) Truck is a 97 F150 4x4 super cab, w/ 5spd manual and 4.6L V8. It's at 305k miles at this point and still running strong for what it is, but I just think the engine is a turd once you put anything over 1000# in the bed or on a small trailer. That, combined with the terrain around here makes for slow going.

Got the saws covered, as long as one of them doesn't crap out on me! The 288 is fairly new to me and I haven't used it too much yet, but it seems to run strong and it was CHEAP.

I hear ya, Locust Cutter about having 2 different sized trucks ideally, but that's just not in the budget for now. I wish it was, as it really does make sense. Go big or go home for me, at this point.

While we're talking trucks...within the firewood selling scope, for payload capacity in the bed, does a dually have a distinct advantage (more than a couple hundred # difference) over a SRW (same model otherwise) ?

 

[Locust Cutter]

Mos duallys (since '96 at least) usually have a bit stronger leafs on them than the SRWs do. They almost ALWAYS have a MUCH stronger rear-end though. The ford for years has used the Sterling 10.25/10.5" for HD SRW trucks. When you get a dually you get a Dana 80 (on Superdutys anyway, I forget what the OBS trucks have). The Sterling is a good axle but the 80 is a Great axle which will ultimately stand up to more wear and tear before reaching failure and provides superior "sideways balance" (SIC) or lateral stability. This is magnified when towing a large, heavy trailer on uneven or sloped ground. Most SRW 1-tons are simply a 3/4 ton with a 350 badge. Ford is no exception as my old 350 was a testament of, (though it was still far superior to the 150). The SRW trucks can be a bit better in the mud and snow (less flotation, more contact/sinking) but that's debatable).

 

[fastLeo151]

I have just entered into this journey also, I am keeping it simple. My goal is to pay for my splitter and saw.

 

[flashhole]

Good luck with your endeavor. I sold some wood this year for the first time ever to a buddy at work who couldn't find any seasoned firewood this late in the season. I might consider selling a few cords per year myself based on availability. I just cut from the farm. Sounds like you are thinking it through pretty good.

 

[Philbo]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Anybody have any experience with mid 90s era chevy 1 ton dually w/ 454 and what axles the duallies had under there at that time? I'd love to think that I can afford a diesel (upfront and ongoing maint/repairs) but I just can't at this time, so it seems like a big block gasser is my option.

 

[zogger]

this is just general thoughts on trucks and work. I will use this farm and what my boss has found that works. His experience is, bought his first crawler and built his first farm in 1950.....

OK..he has some pickups but they are light duty. He personally drives a ranger for his day to day commuting around stuff. It hauls some tools and him, that's it. Next up in size is a 250 that only hauls a stock trailer. It is a utility/maintenance truck as well, but rarely gets used for that. After that it jumps up quick for "real work". The two most used are an F450 flatbed dump then a gmc I think chevy 60 series size? Whatever is the largest chebby that doesn't need a CDL. It's plenty big. then he has various dump trucks and one road tractor and specialty trucks like litter spreader, shavings spreader, and assorted other.

He said the larger trucks don't get that much worse mileage but can do so much more work that regular pickups just don't cut the mustard.

 

[ponyexpress976]

I know it's taboo for a lot of people but why not sell some green wood first. Make sure you advertise it as such and price accordingly. I love it when I get to sell the green stuff...means I don't have to move it to the seasoning area. it comes off the truck, gets split, then goes right back out.

 

[blackdogon57]

Unless you can get way more than 250 per cord I would forget the kiln idea. Start cutting now and selling in the spring. By next summer/fall your wood will be ready to burn. Be honest with customers about how long your wood has been seasoned. You would be surprised at how many people buy wood in spring/summer so they can store it themselves to dry properly. Most of my wood sales are in July and August. My regulars know I run out every year so they know to call and take delivery well before burning season.

Invest in a used heavy duty pick up and a dump trailer. My firewood truck is my every day ride - 2002 dodge 2500 with 5.9 cummins. If properly maintained these trucks last a long time and hold their value. I have put over 400,000km on mine and it's still going strong. I get around 20 mpg empty and about 14 towing. I use a 14' gooseneck dumper and can put it in just about any driveway in the city to dump wood.

 

[3fordasho]

I've delivered plenty of split firewood with a 1/2t pickup - 8' box. It'll haul just shy of a half cord of seasoned firewood but that is taxing it pretty good - as in the headlights are pointing at the tree tops and the little 302 pings pretty good going up any incline. Forget about pulling a trailer with a load in the back.

I just picked up a F450 with the 7.3 powerstroke/ 6 speed manual. It has a 12' flat bed with dump hoist.
The dump is a big timesaver at unloading time. Next is a 10k equipment trailer and a medium sized skidloader - say Bobcat 753/763 or so. Only 10k rating on the trailer because I need to stay under 26K combined on the truck + trailer to avoid the CDL requirement. A 1ton truck will allow you to go bigger on the trailer if desired.


I've been working with a buddy who has a similar set up and it's amazing how much more wood you can get out of the woods with the skidloader and how much easier it is on the body. Use the skid to make a path to the desired trees and to manage brush, cut trees, push brush into a pile, drag logs with skid to bucking area, buck, use skid to load truck. Skid also works good to drag down hang ups which are unavoidable in the woods unless you are allowed to clear cut (not likely). Some will say a compact tractor will do a better job in the woods than a skid, but my experience is the skid has worked pretty well and we are cutting in a pretty wet area, as in my boots will pick up some mud but I don't sink in it. Skid has the advantage of better manuverablilty, yes it scuffs up the woods a bit more but if you stay with a ~5000lb machine it's not too bad and in a year you won't know you've been in there. A track machine would be the ultimate but more initial $$ and track maintenance or replacement is $$$.

 

[autoimage]

last year I cut 15 cords all off craigslist this year im on track for 20. one tip may be to make a card to hand people where you get wood. last year I did that for a small ash and this year the guy called me to clear 7 acres of ash hickory cherry only a mile from my house. I make about 20/hr when you calculate everything. I would scrap the kiln idea it sounds like you will be handling the wood extra times, I only want to move 4 cords twice, once to stack and once to deliver. get the 1 ton it will help in your scrounging...good luck keep us posted

 

[jrider]

I agree with others on the scrapping the kiln. You will spend way too much time moving wood around. Now if you had a tractor with forks and access to plenty of pallets, that would be a different story. I don't stack any of my wood at all. It gets thrown into a pile once split and then thrown into the truck when it's delivery time.

 

[Philbo]

Don't want to get into selling green wood. It's almost just as much work for less money. I'd have a hard time charging people very much for freshly split, unseasoned wood, even if advertised as such. So many folks around here charge 180-200/ cord for "seasoned mixed hardwood", which really means wood that was just bucked and split yesterday and some soft maple thrown in to bulk it up. I'm trying to do something to set myself apart from that in terms of both quality (well seasoned) and to fill a niche in the marketplace.

Yes, it will be more stacking and re-stacking, but the turnover has the potential to be so much quicker. I have a limited amount of space that I can stack wood so it seems like the accelerated drying time of the kiln is a no brainer, even if I have to re-stack the wood one more time. There may be times when it works out that I can load the wood to deliver straight from the kiln without having to restack.


Jrider,

How long do you let your wood season in a pile? Don't you lose the bottom layer or so to rot/mold/punk? What if it rains for a month straight (this past July) ?


As for the truck and equipment, I wish I was in a position to be able to afford a 4wd tractor with forks or a FEL, but that ain't in the cards anytime soon. Gotta make do the manual way for now, which I don't mind...it's just slower. Same goes for a 2 ton dump truck or gooseneck dump trailer...this is a low budget business plan where I'm trying to maximize my returns with minimal cash out of pocket up front, at least until I make something from the first couple of seasons.

I did some figuring a while back and came up with about 8 hrs of labor (+ drying time obviously) per cord of wood if I'm scrounging it and more like 6 hrs of labor per cord with a delivered log load type of setup. This is with a powered splitter. At $250+/cord, that's $31-$41 an hour (minus fuel and log cost if applicable), which really comes out to more like $20-$30 an hour after costs. That's better by a large margin than what I make at my day job, so why not? And I like doing it more!

Thanks again for all the comments and feedback. This is an ongoing plan and project of mine so keep the dialogue going for that and anyone else's sake that may be thinking about doing the same kinda thing.

 

[zogger]

Don't want to get into selling green wood. It's almost just as much work for less money. I'd have a hard time charging people very much for freshly split, unseasoned wood, even if advertised as such. So many folks around here charge 180-200/ cord for "seasoned mixed hardwood", which really means wood that was just bucked and split yesterday and some soft maple thrown in to bulk it up. I'm trying to do something to set myself apart from that in terms of both quality (well seasoned) and to fill a niche in the marketplace.

Yes, it will be more stacking and re-stacking, but the turnover has the potential to be so much quicker. I have a limited amount of space that I can stack wood so it seems like the accelerated drying time of the kiln is a no brainer, even if I have to re-stack the wood one more time. There may be times when it works out that I can load the wood to deliver straight from the kiln without having to restack.


Jrider,

How long do you let your wood season in a pile? Don't you lose the bottom layer or so to rot/mold/punk? What if it rains for a month straight (this past July) ?


As for the truck and equipment, I wish I was in a position to be able to afford a 4wd tractor with forks or a FEL, but that ain't in the cards anytime soon. Gotta make do the manual way for now, which I don't mind...it's just slower. Same goes for a 2 ton dump truck or gooseneck dump trailer...this is a low budget business plan where I'm trying to maximize my returns with minimal cash out of pocket up front, at least until I make something from the first couple of seasons.

I did some figuring a while back and came up with about 8 hrs of labor (+ drying time obviously) per cord of wood if I'm scrounging it and more like 6 hrs of labor per cord with a delivered log load type of setup. This is with a powered splitter. At $250+/cord, that's $31-$41 an hour (minus fuel and log cost if applicable), which really comes out to more like $20-$30 an hour after costs. That's better by a large margin than what I make at my day job, so why not? And I like doing it more!

Thanks again for all the comments and feedback. This is an ongoing plan and project of mine so keep the dialogue going for that and anyone else's sake that may be thinking about doing the same kinda thing.

Well, you got a plan, it should work. Stay small or go real big, one or the other. Stay small, little equipment cost, premium product..you'll sell some wood. Good luck man!

 

[Jim Timber]

This is a good thread.

Don't forget to pay the tax thugs when running numbers.

 

[Locust Cutter]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Anybody have any experience with mid 90s era chevy 1 ton dually w/ 454 and what axles the duallies had under there at that time? I'd love to think that I can afford a diesel (upfront and ongoing maint/repairs) but I just can't at this time, so it seems like a big block gasser is my option.

Should be a Standard 14 bolt which was a tough rear-end, unless you get a 3500HD which was a 4500 with a 3500 badge and cab, bridging the gap between the Kodiak series and pickup series... The only other exception was the rear for the M1008's which was the GOV/MIL designation for a 1-ton Chevy Dually which had a full-floater locker axle... A word about that too: are you familiar with the differences between a limited slip, open and locker axles? In a nut shell open is 1-wheel drive, if the tire slips, you're done. A limited slip is one wheel drive until the wheel slips, then it temporarily locks into 2-wheel drive for increased traction and then unlocks again when slipping stops. A locker is full-time 2-wheel drive and both wheels are always getting equal power. Open allows for a tighter turning radius and better mileage and is great for city trucks. A locker is great for dedicated off-road rigs as maximum traction is always available, but the turning radius suffers as does mileage, (more drag). A limited slip, or the addition of an ARB-style air locker is best because you have traction when you need it, but better mileage and turning (less wear on the front tires) the rest of the time. Lockers give you much better traction, but if you get stuck, you have 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 tires to dig out, dependent upon DRW or SRW and which axle(s) have lockers. They're also easier to break as they don't give while under a bind. Things to think about.

A word on the bigger trucks. I used to have a '63 F-600 dump (grain bed) with a 13.5' box. It had a 262 I6 and 4spd tranny with a 2spd rear. It was tough, slow and could haul a house. I hauled a lot of wood and I would still have it had the bottom end not been getting ready to let go with no parts available. This was before the big 3 went to standardized bell-housings so losin the engine would have also necessitated replacing the tranny, which I didn't want to do. It it had been a '67 or newer I'd have kept it, but in the bigger trucks (older anyway) I prefer GM to the others. It got about 7.8 mpg and could haul about 1.5 cords of wet Hedge weight-wise. My buddies '90 Chevy 3500 ext-cab, 454/TH400 dually gets about 9mpg and can tow about the same but mileage goes from about 11 empty to about 8 towing a load so it's a bit of a tossup. The diesels are where you get into the real capability, but with $$$ being an issue a gas 454 or 460 would be the ticket. You might also consider an Isuzu NPR flatbed as the 4 and 6cyl diesels they have are bullet-proof, economical and haul a good load. They also have a VERY tight turning radius. The only concern would be traction, but 4x4 models have been available over the years. You might also look at used flatbed wreckers as they have good capacity, have PTO driven winches and tilt beds which would make skidding a breeze. Just a few outside the box thoughts. I apologize for the novel.