Pioneer P65 cylinder swap, now too tight,do I hone cylinder,or sand rings?

[youngbuck$]

I KNOW ,I KNOW, LIKE A CUB PLAYIN' WITH HIS PUD. PLEASE GUYS A LITTLE GUIDANCE HERE OLD PARPS SMILING DOWN ON ME WISHING HE COULD HELP.A couple of months ago i was at the junkyard and acquired a Pioneer P 65 HP. started it up and it seemed to run, so I cleaned it up put some fluids in it and went on to test the chain and bar, as soon as I put a load on it ,(tried to cut wood), it died out. so i read up did a little research, thanks to a signed copy of Barnacle Parps' chainsaw guide I got from "walters" son, and what i could gather from mike acres site,went on with trouble shooting and diagnosis protocol. From what I gathered it was either low compression or a dirty/clogged exhaust manifold or port. I found myself at the junkyard again and there it was a Poulan 65 spitting image of the pioneer! So I bought it and took it home but was reluctant to change any parts out till I had a couple ex-logger friends try to fix the problem through the carb adjustments. To no avail! So more research, more reading and i went for it.. managed to get the piston in the other cylinder with beater blocks and a hose clamp.(Rather the cylinder off the Poulan over the rings and piston of the Pioneer). knew it was to tight but kept pushing on stubbornly, thinking maybe a few cranks and it would loosen up. Parp said this would be a gamble but didn't divulge how to make a minor adjustment as such. Any ideas or shared experiences? Much appreciated fellas! Where would i acquire a guage or new rings and other helpful items? If I damaged parts can they be repaired,sanded honed ect.?

 

[Jacob J.]

So you took the piston out of the Poulan 65 and put it into your P65 HP? If it went in with beater blocks, that indicates to me that something is wrong,
like a ring is upside down or something. Are you sure you didn't do some damage trying to force the piston in?

 

[RBurtcher]

Perhaps a few measurements are in order. It is a common practice to first insert just the ring into the cylinder using the piston crown to square it up. At this point a feeler gauge is then used to measure the end gap of said ring. I would start here first. good luck.

 

[youngbuck$]

All i know is i am over my head on this one but loving the lessons too much to quit. the piston on the pioneer has not been removed, possibly damaged rings or cylinder, should i try to remove the cylinder and start again with said measuring and squaring technique? dis-assemble whole saw in order to get piston unstuck without damaging more. i really dont wanna ruin this rare saw... if it's not too late?

 

[youngbuck$]

Thanks RB, I NOW REALIZE MY RASH AND NAIVE APPROACH.any more tips to rings, gaps and replacement would be great. I will eagerly await any more advice or links you may have to offer. unfortunately I am bound by economic, geographic, transportation issues and cannot afford to just buy a new saw. That and I am stubborn.

 

[Jacob J.]

You need to dry fit a piston when putting it into a different cylinder and see if it hangs up. You also need to clean the carbon off the top of the piston, out of
the exhaust port of the cylinder, and out of the combustion chamber of the cylinder. As mentioned, check the ring fit and gap, and check the cylinder walls
for wear or damage.

 

[youngbuck$]

Did all that Jacob and the Poulan cylinder looked way better if I can find my camera cord i will post some pics. Was not so tight that it ground the walls i hope. I could turn the flywheel and get the piston to slide but when i put the starter rope assembly on and tried pulling ,no go.What about removal should i heat up the cylinder with a torch or something? Lots of oil? It's the deepest ive gone in with these junkyard rebuilds which are a result of my last 3 saws getting stolen, I said hell with it they wont know which one to steal if i have 20 saws!

 

[RBurtcher]

I'm really thinking there might be something to what Jacob mentioned and that is having the ring mounted upside down. Did you remove the ring from the piston? Were you very careful making sure the ring gap alligned with the allignment pin?

 

[youngbuck$]

YIKES I BETTER HIT THE BOOKS.Luckily i have another one. Did not remove the rings however,didnt know how to align the rings either.Too much too soon. thank you guys, i am sure you didnt plan on teaching kindergarten today! ready for my next lesson:msp_confused:

 

[youngbuck$]

any literature or links you can email me ? [email protected] knows there might be something i find that i could repay the favor with. A "barnacle parp" poem perhaps

 

[Ambull]

I haven't seen the words "ring compressor" anywhere in this thread. I have a feeling you don't have one. Get a simple ring compressor kit from Baileys. That may be your only problem.

 

[Saw Dr.]

Actually, user DH1984 is an expert at this type of repair. You should send him a private message and get his thoughts on this. Please save the PM dialog, so we all can learn from it when the saw is DONE.

 

[Chris J.]

Actually, user DH1984 is an expert at this type of repair. You should send him a private message and get his thoughts on this. Please save the PM dialog, so we all can learn from it when the saw is DONE.

Do not follow the above advice!

Repeat: Do not follow the above advice!


SD, making a sarcastic post is one thing, but a newbie might take you seriously. Not everyone here is familiar with Charles' (dh1984) history.


Youngbuck$, you can go the Stickies section at the top of page, and ask for a Service Manual in the Beg For Manuals thread. I see that you've already found the Pioneer sticky thread :msp_thumbsup:.

 

[blsnelling]

:bang: Please don't force an engine together.

 

[Saw Dr.]

Do not follow the above advice!

Repeat: Do not follow the above advice!


SD, making a sarcastic post is one thing, but a newbie might take you seriously. Not everyone here is familiar with Charles' (dh1984) history.


Youngbuck$, you can go the Stickies section at the top of page, and ask for a Service Manual in the Beg For Manuals thread. I see that you've already found the Pioneer sticky thread :msp_thumbsup:.

Well Jay, if he hammered the cylinder on there, the piston and jug are already junk. Sounds like he has a ring end hanging in a port (probably transfer). Not to mention that a Poulan 65 is a very old vertical cylinder saw. If he actually used a Poulan 65 top end, it will be bad. And, if it was a PP655, why would he pull it apart in the first place???

 

[Chris J.]

Well Jay, if he hammered the cylinder on there, the piston and jug are already junk. Sounds like he has a ring end hanging in a port (probably transfer). Not to mention that a Poulan 65 is a very old vertical cylinder saw. If he actually used a Poulan 65 top end, it will be bad. And, if it was a PP655, why would he pull it apart in the first place???

And suggesting that youngbuck$ contact dh1984 for help is useful in what way?

BTW, I think your 'reference' post is quite funny , but as I previously posted, newbies not familiar with dh1984 and his saw rebuilding adventures might not realize that you were being sarcastic.

 

[Saw Dr.]

And suggesting that youngbuck$ contact dh1984 for help is useful in what way?

BTW, I think your 'reference' post is quite funny , but as I previously posted, newbies not familiar with dh1984 and his saw rebuilding adventures might not realize that you were being sarcastic.

Well I just figured the top end is already ruined, and the rod and cylinder mount are probably messed up to. Guess I seriously doubt there is much hope for saving this one. To bad it is a less common saw. I hope I am wrong, and it is an easy fix.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Very unfortunate that you chose this saw to tearup and blunder with rebuilding it as the parts for that saw are either rare and do bring good money to buy new. I have built so many of these saws I see them in my sleep. From the sounds of it likely your cylinder and piston+ rings are now fubared, never pound a piston into a cylinder, they just slip in easily when all clearances are met and the rings compressed in their proper location.

 

[youngbuck$]

bet me a runner pics posted soon.

wow ,well i guess i chewed up my golden ticket, and spat it in the gutter. No worries got more cylinders and pistons. if i hurt any feelings, sorry shes gonna make it though. here we go roosters are crowin'! who wants to bet me a "runner" she runs by "Mums Day" brunch?

 

[youngbuck$]

Oh ya this dh1984, is he the one that has the cylinder stretcher? hehe thanks guys, u made me smile.