Porting - Performance Measured?

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But...higher compression slows the piston more as it nears the squish band...another variable...and more air/fuel flows through larger ports and that fresh fuel is what provides most of the cooling in a two-stroke engine.

Ultimately what determines saw longevity is the maintenance it receives. Ironically, a lot of people here are concerned about saw life but they don't use their saws enough to ever really wear them out. Professional fallers rotate saws out before they're completely shot. Logging companies and tree services are the only entities that wear saws out on a regular basis. 99% of the guys on this site will trade or sell a powerhead off before it has given its total service life (or the saws will get smashed/run over/burned up due to operator error.)
Isn't the lobe on the crank for balancing the piston movement? More compression = more heat. I Ported a 460 pushing 225 psi and tuned at 13500 it runs great but wander how long it will last. 225 is not needed for a ported saw but it makes nice torque. I also had a ported 460 that blew 200 + and it trashed the lower connecting rod bearing. I'm not saying 200 is going to blow a saw up but it has to add some more tension.
 
No one offered a saw to blow up? What's a cheep good saw for porting? I'd need two brand new ones and someone to port one. We could all chip in buy two for a test. I'd be delighted to be wrong on my thoughts.
 
No one offered a saw to blow up? What's a cheep good saw for porting? I'd need two brand new ones and someone to port one. We could all chip in buy two for a test. I'd be delighted to be wrong on my thoughts.

How are you going to blow them up? Wouldn't there still be a variance between the two saws? Just because they are two brand news saws does not mean they are the same. Even coming fresh off the production line, one can run good and one can be a lemon.
 
How are you going to blow them up? Wouldn't there still be a variance between the two saws? Just because they are two brand news saws does not mean they are the same. Even coming fresh off the production line, one can run good and one can be a lemon.
Loaded down at 8500 rpms or so on the dyno with fuel line added to get gas from a 5 gallon can till it blows. Yeah I agree every one is different and four or six saws would be needed for a better test.
 
Just picked up an immaculate 1957 DeWalt GWI radial arm saw for $50! that needs a little work somewhere. Guess I'm learning to channel CAD constructively.
 
Isn't the lobe on the crank for balancing the piston movement? More compression = more heat. I Ported a 460 pushing 225 psi and tuned at 13500 it runs great but wander how long it will last. 225 is not needed for a ported saw but it makes nice torque. I also had a ported 460 that blew 200 + and it trashed the lower connecting rod bearing. I'm not saying 200 is going to blow a saw up but it has to add some more tension.
More compression definitely means more heat, but so does forcing a saw to cut with a dull chain, or forcing a saw to cut with a dirty air filter/worn clutch drum/worn sprocket/stiff carburetor diaphragms.
Modding a two-cycle engine to create more than a certain amount of compression actually creates diminishing returns. In my opinion a working saw doesn't need more than 180-190 psi. That's because of the
different loads and ranges the saw will operate under.

A single cylinder engine has a certain amount of balance, but a modern saw crank isn't what you would call precisely "balanced" to the piston. Look at the Husky 362/365/372 series- one crank for several different piston
and cylinder combinations and sizes. The 044 (later)/440/046/460 all use the same size big end rod bearing. The 064 and 066 did too for a long time.
Here's a picture for all the fanboys who cry foul when a cylinder is missing part of a cooling fin. I've run this saw for two years cutting professionally and it's already cut more wood than most people will in their respective lifetimes, and it's still only 1/4 of the way into its service life (blowing 185 or so psi):

 
Apropos of yer sig. Cool. Gives me sumthin to shoot for. In all honesty, and bein new to the new saws which to my old ears just seem to scream, I know I fretted a bit over lean seizes, proper break-in, and all the rest, but the more I learn and use and tune the better I like usin them, and to see and hear stuff like this helps to restore some sanity and breathing room.
 
No one offered a saw to blow up? What's a cheep good saw for porting? I'd need two brand new ones and someone to port one. We could all chip in buy two for a test. I'd be delighted to be wrong on my thoughts.
You'd be best off using a 346/353 or a 357/359


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Dyno numbers are pretty useless for two reasons.

1. Just because a saw makes more peak power doesn't mean it's faster. The power band could be too peaky for work. I've not seen a dyno for saws actually measure this accurately.

Dyno's measure power at ALL operating RPM's. You have not seen a dyno chart and you are partaking in a dyno conversation? Have you ever see an engine do a dyno run with the computer read out?

2. Saws were made to cut wood. All of my videos are done in hardwoods. But that's because I have nothing else but hardwoods. I often times use out of the box chain because that's what people are likely to use when Working.

Do you cut in the exact same part of wood before and after? Same exact conditions? Same exact chain, or same sharpness? If you didn't, but you said they did, would we be able to tell the difference? Like I said - the same also applies to the dyno. It's all up to the user and operator. Both are useful. Both can lie. But, unlike cutting wood, the dyno can put a measurable load on the saw. You seem to be confused by the fact a dynamometer can place a varying load on a saw. It tells you exactly how the saw can handle what load and what RPM, is repeatable, and recordable. Testing a saw in wood, while certainly a good idea, doesn't give you the same exact sort of data. Both are highly useful. What the dyno does is it records data without variables that could make such a record difficult when cutting. It is not LESS information, it is additional information. I don't think any one is arguing using the dyno in lieu of using wood. Just as dyno charts and lap times go hand in hand in F1, testing in the real world and comparing it to the dyno are done in about every other aspect of engine making, including saws. This is how you learn what to look out for on the dyno.

The only true constant is in cut times.

If they are constant - why bother porting? But, seriously, they aren't constant. Nothing is the same. Ever. Not even in the dyno. Done right, the Dyno is as close to reliable for stats as one can be. There is a reason everyone, including stihl and husqvarna, ford, chevy, etc use one to develop and test their engines(in order to post HP numbers, Stihl and Husky have to dyno their saws). Cars drive on the road, saws cut wood, they both use engines, they are all dyno tested at the factory and during development. Again, there is no need to invent the wheel. This is how engineers have been working for the better part of a century, likely for several decades in saw production, and it is why we have had such great engines. You are fighting something that already exists. The dyno is what gave you the saw in your hand. And, like it or lump, some great chainsaw porters use dynos.
 
Interesting posts and definately a good read. Chris- pa touched on this and l think it is useful to elaborate further. Engine manafactorers ultimately end up with an engine which is a comprimise of a LOT of factors in order to meet a number of criteria. Noise, pollution, wieght, reliability, service life and a whole lot of other factors. Backyard builders usually have very few criteria to meet ie MORE POWER, and have minimal constraints put upon them. Sometimes l think we do not give the engineers behind our saws the credit they deserve and l'm sure if increasing hp was thier only objective they could do so on virtually every model they produce. l would love to send a saw back to the factory and tell them they don't need to meet pollution requirements, noise aint a problem either, vibration is my friend and l want white finger, l own an oil field so fuel consumption aint an issue, and cause l'm so rich (from my oil field) price point aint an issue either. Just give me MORE POWER & see what they come up with. Increasing hp is probably one of the easier tasks for engineers, its meeting all the rules & requirments thats the REAL challenge. Backyard guys have no constaints what so ever and get hailed as gods for achieving ONE thing.
 
Interesting posts and definately a good read. Chris- pa touched on this and l think it is useful to elaborate further. Engine manafactorers ultimately end up with an engine which is a comprimise of a LOT of factors in order to meet a number of criteria. Noise, pollution, wieght, reliability, service life and a whole lot of other factors. Backyard builders usually have very few criteria to meet ie MORE POWER, and have minimal constraints put upon them. Sometimes l think we do not give the engineers behind our saws the credit they deserve and l'm sure if increasing hp was thier only objective they could do so on virtually every model they produce. l would love to send a saw back to the factory and tell them they don't need to meet pollution requirements, noise aint a problem either, vibration is my friend and l want white finger, l own an oil field so fuel consumption aint an issue, and cause l'm so rich (from my oil field) price point aint an issue either. Just give me MORE POWER & see what they come up with. Increasing hp is probably one of the easier tasks for engineers, its meeting all the rules & requirments thats the REAL challenge. Backyard guys have no constaints what so ever and get hailed as gods for achieving ONE thing.
I agree 100% with you CR888. Saw manufactures have to please everyone. How great would it be if they built them to A S specs.
 
Wondering if Randy ever actually got the dyno and if any before/after results were obtained or published.
Just Curious where this all ended up?
 
Saws are designed with a lot a factors in mind. First EPA ... Fuel efficiency , noise , emissions (this is why they have choked mufflers and are as lean as possible ) EPA does not care if the saw has no power or even runs sacrificing the life span of a saw. I believe some mods will increase the life of a saw .a muffler mod and a bit of adjustment on the carb I'm sure will do a lot to add to the life of a saw . Full out port job I'm sure will shorten how long a saw last for you just because that's the one you will grab 90% of the time. Another factor is load on the engine ,add some power and you will get through the wood faster ,less load less wear.You would also have to factor work actually achieved with a saw. A full woods ported saw may only last 90% of a non ported saw. But may also do 20% more work. It's impossible to even test longevity .
Look at it this way what's the first thing most of us do when we get a new car? Got to have nice wheels and big tires on out truck. Maybe a nice exhaust system and a air intake. Will this make it last longer ? Probably the opposite. We still do it anyhow,But it makes you love your car or truck more and it's more or less personalized to the owner . So that being said I think longevity is last on the want list when a thinking of getting your saw ported . You get something few people have and bragging rites. And it's yours !!! Port away make your friends envious !!



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Dyno's measure power at ALL operating RPM's. You have not seen a dyno chart and you are partaking in a dyno conversation? Have you ever see an engine do a dyno run with the computer read out?



Do you cut in the exact same part of wood before and after? Same exact conditions? Same exact chain, or same sharpness? If you didn't, but you said they did, would we be able to tell the difference? Like I said - the same also applies to the dyno. It's all up to the user and operator. Both are useful. Both can lie. But, unlike cutting wood, the dyno can put a measurable load on the saw. You seem to be confused by the fact a dynamometer can place a varying load on a saw. It tells you exactly how the saw can handle what load and what RPM, is repeatable, and recordable. Testing a saw in wood, while certainly a good idea, doesn't give you the same exact sort of data. Both are highly useful. What the dyno does is it records data without variables that could make such a record difficult when cutting. It is not LESS information, it is additional information. I don't think any one is arguing using the dyno in lieu of using wood. Just as dyno charts and lap times go hand in hand in F1, testing in the real world and comparing it to the dyno are done in about every other aspect of engine making, including saws. This is how you learn what to look out for on the dyno.



If they are constant - why bother porting? But, seriously, they aren't constant. Nothing is the same. Ever. Not even in the dyno. Done right, the Dyno is as close to reliable for stats as one can be. There is a reason everyone, including stihl and husqvarna, ford, chevy, etc use one to develop and test their engines(in order to post HP numbers, Stihl and Husky have to dyno their saws). Cars drive on the road, saws cut wood, they both use engines, they are all dyno tested at the factory and during development. Again, there is no need to invent the wheel. This is how engineers have been working for the better part of a century, likely for several decades in saw production, and it is why we have had such great engines. You are fighting something that already exists. The dyno is what gave you the saw in your hand. And, like it or lump, some great chainsaw porters use dynos.

I agree whole heartedly with all of your post! Will be glad to see Randy's results when he gets the dyno and starts using it. I know it is time consuming, but Randy's a straight shooter and I think he will make the most of it.

Waylan
 
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