propane ...the other gas

[Bill G]

There was a guy north of us that had all LP powered tractors. He had a 18,000 gallon storage tank. The best of his tractors were (3) Minneapolis Moline A4T-1600 4 wheel drives.

 

[Bill G]

As noted before Sears is selling the LP powered trimmers now. They also have a electric start one. They are in the recent book sent out.

Bill

 

[Brmorgan]

I live pretty rural - town of 10,000, and regional population density here is less than 1 person per square kilometer - and I could probably find enough propane here to blow half the town off the map. I'm not sure if / why it would be less available in the US than up here. I thought it was actually more popular in rural areas due to lack of natural gas service in outlying areas, and recreational use such as camping equipment.

The general widsom here is that a good propane conversion on a gas engine will net a 15-20% power loss compared to gasoline, just because of the BTU content and detonation characteristic differences between the fuels. Sort of like how propane works fine with a cutting torch, but consumes more oxygen and requires more preheating. In both cases though, the cost savings more than make up for the inefficiency. My old truck has a 305 on propane, and I can put $120 worth of fuel into it about this time of year and work with it all summer on that.

The reason for adding propane to a diesel is that it has a similar effect to NOS in a gas engine - it cools the air down, resulting in more oxygen in a given volume of air, and has the added benefit of also being explosive, unlike NOS. There used to be a guy in town with a Dodge Cummins that had been chipped and also had a propane booster, and it had some absolutely ridiculous torque.

My one question about these little propane engines is lubrication. They say four stroke - do they have an oil reservoir crankcase and a limited operating position, or do they have an oil injector? I do also share the concerns about the tank freezing or being unreliable.

As a final note, I'm going to be rebuilding a bandmill this summer and am considering converting whatever engine I get for it to propane. Most B&S type engines can be converted with not much more than a carb adapter kit. I'm not sure how much runtime one could get from, say an 18HP engine on a 20-pounder of Propane though.

 

[J Beard]

an adapter is available to refill your 1lb bottle from your 20 lb cylinder.$17
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45989

if you wish to compare stats,
propane has a higher octane but produces 74 % as much energy as gasoline.

 

[7sleeper]

I have a Honda 4 stroke trimmer and yes it is a real 4 stroke with a seperate oil reservoir that is changed once a year and it works great!!! It also starts just as easy as in the videos!!! It is not like the Stihl 4 stroke where you use 2 mix but you use regular gas 89/95 octane in the tank. How long does a filling with mix last in the tank? With the Honda I have the impression the regular gas lasts for ever. Of course only 1.1 hp but that is average for the homeowner.

BTW welcome to AS BUDH and don't worry sometimes the boys here are a little rough.

7sleeper

 

[Slamm]

I grew up with LP/propane tractors and when I was 8 I could fill anyone of them from out 1,000 gallon propane tank, other than screwing the hose to the tank and watching the gauge, it isn't any harder than filling up a gas tank.

The engines run off of propane run cleaner and the oil is never dirty. The one downfall is the heavier fuel holding tanks ...... you can't just use a plastic liquid proof tank, it has to be able to handle a decent amount of pressure which means a metal or carbon fiber of some sort, which is either heavier or more expensive than plastic.

Neat idea though,

Sam

 

[BUDH]

Thanks for the welcome, 7sleeper. It will take lots more than that to get me riled up, and it's not worth my time.

Brmorgan, propane is available all over the states, local & rural. In fact, it's more available in rural areas for the same reasons you stated, but usually purchased in bulk. Even grocery stores sell it, and usually, anyone selling charcoal usually has the small cylinders of propane.

 

[MS460WOODCHUCK]

If it was such a good idea then every thing would run on it instead of gas. In my opinion, JUNK!

 

[windthrown]

LP/propane has 26% less energy than gasoline. By BTU:

Gasoline: 125,000 BTU/gal (87 octane regular)
Propane: 93,000 BTU/gal

E-10 Gasoline with 10% Ethnol: 120,900 BTU/gal

 

[spacemule]

LP/propane has 26% less energy than gasoline. By BTU:

Gasoline: 125,000 BTU/gal (87 octane regular)
Propane: 93,000 BTU/gal

E-10 Gasoline with 10% Ethnol: 120,900 BTU/gal

That is true. However, all you have to do is design the engine with the proper displacement. We have a forklift at work that weighs 15,000 pounds and is lp powered. It has more than enough power. If you're converting a gas engine to propane, then the power might be a problem.

 

[MOE]

I live pretty rural - town of 10,000, and regional population density here is less than 1 person per square kilometer - and I could probably find enough propane here to blow half the town off the map. I'm not sure if / why it would be less available in the US than up here. I thought it was actually more popular in rural areas due to lack of natural gas service in outlying areas, and recreational use such as camping equipment.

The general widsom here is that a good propane conversion on a gas engine will net a 15-20% power loss compared to gasoline, just because of the BTU content and detonation characteristic differences between the fuels. Sort of like how propane works fine with a cutting torch, but consumes more oxygen and requires more preheating. In both cases though, the cost savings more than make up for the inefficiency. My old truck has a 305 on propane, and I can put $120 worth of fuel into it about this time of year and work with it all summer on that.

The reason for adding propane to a diesel is that it has a similar effect to NOS in a gas engine - it cools the air down, resulting in more oxygen in a given volume of air, and has the added benefit of also being explosive, unlike NOS. There used to be a guy in town with a Dodge Cummins that had been chipped and also had a propane booster, and it had some absolutely ridiculous torque.

My one question about these little propane engines is lubrication. They say four stroke - do they have an oil reservoir crankcase and a limited operating position, or do they have an oil injector? I do also share the concerns about the tank freezing or being unreliable.

As a final note, I'm going to be rebuilding a bandmill this summer and am considering converting whatever engine I get for it to propane. Most B&S type engines can be converted with not much more than a carb adapter kit. I'm not sure how much runtime one could get from, say an 18HP engine on a 20-pounder of Propane though.

you are correct about the difference in BTU's. It will translate into increased fuel consumption compared to gasolene,(diesel has more BTU's than gasolene and also does more work per gallon) The loss in BTU's is not the reason LP conversions made less HP. It's the compression ratio, head porting and intake manifolds. Most LP conversions ran the same heads and intake. LP is 105 octane. It likes compression, like 10:1 and up. It needs it to burn decently and make power. LP is a dry vapor that doesn't have fuel seperation problems like gasolene when a manifold or head port is too big. It likes big manifolds and ports. When an engine is set up to run LP it will make more power and more tourque than a gasolene counter part with increased longivety. Minneapolis moline tractors were big on LP in the 50's and 60's They consistantly made 10-20% more HP on nebraska tests than the gasolene version. They also made a lot more torque because LP will burn slower and through out the entire stroke, I great advantage for a longer stroked tractor engine. I farm with LP tractors and Pull LP tractors in tractor pulls. They are real sleepers at tractor pulls. I fill my tractors out of a 500 gallon tank witha liquid line.

That said, I still drive gas vehicals and don't have an urge to get an LP weed eater. They are great engines in the right application.

 

[Hddnis]

Propane is available in very rural areas. Around here there are hiking stores that don't even sell gas, but they sell propane. These places get supplies by snow cat or helicopter in the winter. That should be a rough idea of availability of propane.



Mr. HE

 

[windthrown]

How about this for... the other gas?

 

[Brmorgan]

My dad briefly owned an old 1980 Ford with a 400ci 4-speed manual on propane. Talk about torque! I don't remember ever using first gear except for when in 4WD Low to haul something heavy. I did actually successfully start it off in fourth gear once on the flat, but it took some light touches on the clutch. And I didn't dare exceed 100 Km/h on the highway - the thing had no tach and at that speed, it sounded like it was ready to send a rod through the hood.

Propane works very well for certain applications. It would actually be very good for small cars, but most people wouldn't like the idea of carrying around the equivalent of a pipe bomb in their vehicle.

 

[Elmore]

You will have to adjust the valves every 25 hours.

 

[MOE]

You will have to adjust the valves every 25 hours.

I don't know about other heads but molines use stellite valves and seats. They don't wear or set into the seat any faster than a gasolen or diesel.

 

[kurtty]

i live in northern saskatchewan, we dont have much of a population and you can buy propane from pretty much every store.

 

[Mama Tried]

I guess it would be great if you where mowing inside