Pushing the limits of Lo Pro

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Am testing out my 36" lo pro bar on the biggest slabs I can mill with it, given a max cut width of about 30". I've been curious for awhile at what point there are diminishing returns from lo pro, when tiny full comp chain just gets too clogged with chips by a wide cut. Up to 25" or so it has been amazing, just way faster (and smoother) than regular 3/8" or .404 chain. The power requirements too are a fraction of what people conventionally believe you need for milling. With my 64cc Makita I went all the way up to milling 29" wide short blocks of ash today, cutting up rounds for into big blanks for turning, or side tables, or future resawing for cutting boards, etc. Ash is seriously hard wood, and it didn't have too much trouble with it. Most people wouldn't dream of taking on 29" wide hardwood with a 64cc saw.

Since I hit a nail on one stump and resharpened I've had trouble keeping the cut going without rocking the saw a little. Assumed it was uneven sharpening but the final cuts were still smooth, none of the ridges and digging you get with most chain when you sharpen the teeth on one side better than the other. I think my sharpening could be better and have had to rock it less the more I've resharpened, but I also think part of it is I'm starting to hit my chip throwing limits of the little teeth. It doesn't want to engage the whole bar at once cause that clogs the teeth, but is fine engaging only part of the bar.

One stump I milled was wider (29") than it was long (24") so my wife looked at what I was doing and said "why don't you mill it cross-wise so it's not as wide a cut?" Huh, I thought, reasonable suggestion. Never had a piece wider than it was long before, so it had never come up. Bogged down halfway through, had to rock it a lot to get through the cut, and completely jammed up the sprocket area with shavings. Realized milling in that direction you get huge shavings instead of sawdust/chips. Mighta gotten away with doing it with a big saw and .404, not a chance of it working with lo pro. Don't know if those results were particular to ash, or that happens with anything.

Plan on upgrading the piston and cylinder on the Makita to 79cc one of these days so I have no qualms about abusing the 64cc piston/cylinder mercilessly in the meantime. In the last two pics it shows the results of milling across instead of with the grain (but not cross cutting). The huge shavings to the upper left of the log were from milling across where the sawdust at the bottom of the frame was when I was milling in the conventional direction. And that's how badly the saw got jammed up with shavings.
 

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Hi George, Thanks for doing the "milling with the grain experiment" as it is something I have always wanted to do but never did because I suspected the spaghetti string chips would cause problems. When I modded the drive sprocket cover for the 880 on the BIL mill I deliberately made it mostly exposed like this in case I ever used it for "milling with the grain".
clutch880.jpg
If you get a chance to do it again you could try with slightly higher rakers and/or lower driver sprocket pin count to lower the chain speed a bit.
Thanks for the write up and pics.
 
Hi George, Thanks for doing the "milling with the grain experiment" as it is something I have always wanted to do but never did because I suspected the spaghetti string chips would cause problems. When I modded the drive sprocket cover for the 880 on the BIL mill I deliberately made it mostly exposed like this in case I ever used it for "milling with the grain".

If you get a chance to do it again you could try with slightly higher rakers and/or lower driver sprocket pin count to lower the chain speed a bit.
Yeah, your mod on the 880 might take care of that. In general one of the shortcomings of the Makita for milling is it's a tight little area under the drive sprocket cover and it packs more caked up dust in there than I find on any of my larger saws, and shavings will quickly clog it badly. My 045/056 Supers are still what I ideally want to be running the 36" lo pro on, and been very happy with the efforts I have had with them, but due to ignition glitches for various reasons, keeping them running happily after my rebuilds is one of the greatest time sucks I've ever been engaged in. So I keep putting them aside and falling back on the Makita to get things done.

Will definitely post results if I switch things up and try it again sometime.
 
Hi George, Thanks for doing the "milling with the grain experiment" as it is something I have always wanted to do but never did because I suspected the spaghetti string chips would cause problems. When I modded the drive sprocket cover for the 880 on the BIL mill I deliberately made it mostly exposed like this in case I ever used it for "milling with the grain".
View attachment 1087124
If you get a chance to do it again you could try with slightly higher rakers and/or lower driver sprocket pin count to lower the chain speed a bit.
Thanks for the write up and pics.
Very nice clutch cover mod! I may borrow your idea for my 394xp.
 
What lo pro/picco chain are You using?

I use Stihl 63PMX, but it's got dam expensive in USA. FJB!!!
I have one loop of 63PMX for my 20" setup but otherwise it's mostly Panther, the house brand of Chainsawbars UK. Pretty happy with it but not all that cheap and have to order from UK. I don't think Stihl distributes PMX in the US - Bailey's sources it from who knows where, accounting for the high price (and being an online seller they wouldn't be able to get it from Stihl anyway). Being terminally cheap, I'm keen to get a roll of Archer's lo pro ripping chain to try out which is only like $260 for 100' or $80 or so for 25'. Don't have a chain making setup yet though. Someone else on here got a loop of the Woodland Pro lo pro ripping chain and they found the same thing as I did, it has wildly inconsistent length of teeth.
 
Am testing out my 36" lo pro bar on the biggest slabs I can mill with it, given a max cut width of about 30". I've been curious for awhile at what point there are diminishing returns from lo pro, when tiny full comp chain just gets too clogged with chips by a wide cut. Up to 25" or so it has been amazing, just way faster (and smoother) than regular 3/8" or .404 chain. The power requirements too are a fraction of what people conventionally believe you need for milling. With my 64cc Makita I went all the way up to milling 29" wide short blocks of ash today, cutting up rounds for into big blanks for turning, or side tables, or future resawing for cutting boards, etc. Ash is seriously hard wood, and it didn't have too much trouble with it. Most people wouldn't dream of taking on 29" wide hardwood with a 64cc saw.

Since I hit a nail on one stump and resharpened I've had trouble keeping the cut going without rocking the saw a little. Assumed it was uneven sharpening but the final cuts were still smooth, none of the ridges and digging you get with most chain when you sharpen the teeth on one side better than the other. I think my sharpening could be better and have had to rock it less the more I've resharpened, but I also think part of it is I'm starting to hit my chip throwing limits of the little teeth. It doesn't want to engage the whole bar at once cause that clogs the teeth, but is fine engaging only part of the bar.

One stump I milled was wider (29") than it was long (24") so my wife looked at what I was doing and said "why don't you mill it cross-wise so it's not as wide a cut?" Huh, I thought, reasonable suggestion. Never had a piece wider than it was long before, so it had never come up. Bogged down halfway through, had to rock it a lot to get through the cut, and completely jammed up the sprocket area with shavings. Realized milling in that direction you get huge shavings instead of sawdust/chips. Mighta gotten away with doing it with a big saw and .404, not a chance of it working with lo pro. Don't know if those results were particular to ash, or that happens with anything.

Plan on upgrading the piston and cylinder on the Makita to 79cc one of these days so I have no qualms about abusing the 64cc piston/cylinder mercilessly in the meantime. In the last two pics it shows the results of milling across instead of with the grain (but not cross cutting). The huge shavings to the upper left of the log were from milling across where the sawdust at the bottom of the frame was when I was milling in the conventional direction. And that's how badly the saw got jammed up with shavings.
My habit has been to mill with the "top" of the bar. Throws chips away, brings none into drive sprocket area. And, that's the part that has fresh oil feed.
 
My habit has been to mill with the "top" of the bar. Throws chips away, brings none into drive sprocket area. And, that's the part that has fresh oil feed.
thats interesting
so you have the saw turned around "backwards" from the normal and the top of the bar is doing the cutting?
Seems like that would work well and it would certainly keep chips away from the sproket.
Good idea!
 
My habit has been to mill with the "top" of the bar. Throws chips away, brings none into drive sprocket area. And, that's the part that has fresh oil feed.
Never contemplated that, looked up to see people's experiences and see BobL had some thoughts on it on an old thread. Main issue is pushes bar away from the cut so it's really only practical with a winch. You have to pull instead of push through a cut. And if you happen to run out of fuel in mid-cut you can't gas up, but that almost never happens to me unless I'm running a chain too dull for words and insist on finishing the cut with it no matter how long it takes. One thing it could be advantageous for is uneven logs where the conventional method digs and grabs at the wood so much that it bogs down the saw when it goes around a knob and yanks back tight to the log. I might try that sometime on knobby mesquite to see if it works better. For me the chip throwing and oiling isn't much of an issue, but it could be valuable with lo pro to avoid overtorque-ing the chain by digging in too hard. Never been a concern with the 64cc Makita but as I'm going back to the 87cc 045 Super now that I fixed the ignition again, and contemplating getting a 48" lo pro bar for my 121cc Stihl, I'd like to avoid the saw ever being too grabby and snapping chains and that could be a good way to keep it from doing so.
 
thats interesting
so you have the saw turned around "backwards" from the normal and the top of the bar is doing the cutting?
Seems like that would work well and it would certainly keep chips away from the sproket.
Good idea!
I'm walking to the right rather than left, holding the upright handle away.
 
If your milling from the bar top do you see exstensive wear on the bar sprocket nose?

All the load is now on the nose pulling the chain around. I've "noodled" with the 41" 14mm large stihl mount on 2.5'x2.5' squares so it did jam up but the nose started getting hot on a hot hot day. Stopped doing it after that and never tried it in the winter or cooler months
 
If your milling from the bar top do you see exstensive wear on the bar sprocket nose?

All the load is now on the nose pulling the chain around. I've "noodled" with the 41" 14mm large stihl mount on 2.5'x2.5' squares so it did jam up but the nose started getting hot on a hot hot day. Stopped doing it after that and never tried it in the winter or cooler months
I've never noticed any difference. The resistance at that sprocket should be no different and tha bar gets flipped from time to time.
 
I've never noticed any difference. The resistance at that sprocket should be no different and tha bar gets flipped from time to time.
Load is way up on the nose pulling chain from the top. Simple physics there. Just wondering if it caused a wear issue.
Thanks
 
Load is way up on the nose pulling chain from the top. Simple physics there. Just wondering if it caused a wear issue.
Thanks
Except the "bottom " is the pull, top cutter edge travel is away from PH. Hence the hand pressure on upright handle is to hold far end of mill away from log edge
 
May not be thinking this all the way out but as nose is just a carrying sprocket not a drive sprocket, don’t see any load difference there from physics of cutting w bar top vs bottom. Heat in nose sprocket would seem to be result of friction of sawdust spewing into it. Noodling would dramatically increase that. Yes, a lot will spit off the tip but even carried partially around that drag will really heat up the sprocket. So could totally see it resulting in a wear issue. Normally the vast bulk of debris ejects out the power head side so the nose sprocket sees little of it. But spitting all directly into nose sprocket it sees all of it. For fine dust of hardwoods probably not an issue. For noodling and softwoods could see it being a major friction issue.
 
May not be thinking this all the way out but as nose is just a carrying sprocket not a drive sprocket, don’t see any load difference there from physics of cutting w bar top vs bottom. Heat in nose sprocket would seem to be result of friction of sawdust spewing into it. Noodling would dramatically increase that. Yes, a lot will spit off the tip but even carried partially around that drag will really heat up the sprocket. So could totally see it resulting in a wear issue. Normally the vast bulk of debris ejects out the power head side so the nose sprocket sees little of it. But spitting all directly into nose sprocket it sees all of it. For fine dust of hardwoods probably not an issue. For noodling and softwoods could see it being a major friction issue.
The chains full load is transferred to the nose sprocket when you're cutting from the bar top. Cutting from the bottom loads the rim.
 
This has been discussed before & Lightning is correct.
Cutting on the bottom of the bar puts the load after the nose sprocket so the chain flies around the sprocket loosely (why you get chain slap damage if your chain is too loose). For every bit of load put on the top of the bar the pressure on the nose sprocket increases proportionally as the force to pull the chain through that load has to be delivered by pulling around the nose
 
Lightning and jd are 100% correct. When cutting with the bottom the chain is pulled tight by the drive sprocket, the too side has little basically no tension on it. Top aide cutting the inverse is true, the drive sprocket is still pulling the chain around the bar, but now your work is on top, meaning the chain is fully tensioned around the nose of the bar to where your cutting. Any slop in the chain will still be in the top side before the area where the chain is engaged in the wood.
 

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