Question from newby "hobby arborist"

[apexpredator]

First of all, I've been hanging around picking up tips from some of the more seasoned tree experts. I am a licensed engineer who understands potential and kinetic energy as well as statics, so I'm impressed with the detailed discussion's on rigging tree sections for lowering.

I am dropping a large oak with my brother in law in a couple of weeks and need to top a few high limbs to make sure it doesn't hang up in or damage two trees we want to keep. The tree is in a tall stand with no lmbs for 30' or so and about 32-36" at the base and ~24" or so a ways up. It is leaning in the direction we want it to fall.

The top of the tree grows at about a 15 degree angle from vertical arcing to 30 degrees. We want to lop it off and let it fall there, then drop the rest of the trunk in one piece.

Would you make an undercut to keep the trunk from splitting or just cut it through from the top?

 

[Adkpk]

You just want to top it off? Can you climb? Your description of what you want to do and what your capable of doing is vague at least. You make it seem like your asking directions to the park. Post a pic, give some detail to some kind of experience and some idea of what your planning to use to do this job and maybe someone can help you.

And welcome to the site, apex.

 

[apexpredator]

I have been climbing since high school, primarily with spikes, for mistletoe harvesting and limb work. I used to clean up selling mistletoe door to door tied with a ribbon at Christmas. When you pick it in large bunches it sells better than the twigs usually found at florists. I've also rigged off of roof ridgelines while painting 3 and 4 story dormers and cupolas.

I climb with tree spikes, safety harness with figure 8, two fliplines and a safety line. I usually tie off in a high crotch then do the lower limbs before dropping the tree when I'm trying to miss something like a fence. This tree I'm looking at is just a trunk more or less with a single high crotch, above where I want to cut it. I'm going to have to tie off below where I'm going to have to cut the tree and use my fliplines and spikes at the cut. Rigging out of the nearest trees are not an option as they are over 30 feet away with high crotches, and I'm not going to spike climb them.

My climbing and rigging doesn't concern me. My main concern is getting most of the way thru the cut and the tree splitting out, taking out my fliplines and safety.

I've have had trees that leaned as much split out when I didn't notch them first (when cut from the ground), but I don't want to be 40 feet up and pinch my saw bar and get stuck. Nor do I want to climb too far out just to reduce the leverage since the angle increases the farther from the trunk centerline without anything else overhead.

I am looking for some saw advice on how to cut this to prevent it from splitting out and taking me with it.

 

[Mr.Roehler]

If this is your concern you might try what is called a snap cut. if the top of the tree has enough eight and such going in the direction you want it that's even better. If you can set a tag line further up than where you're going to cut. Then make an open face cut with using a 20 degree undercut with a 70 degree top cut that will add up to a 90 degree face notch. Then using the lower tip of the bar on the saw you can bore cut into the tree leaving some hinge between this cut and your face notch. Cut on back leaving a strap that will hold the top you're cutting then come about 6-8 inches above where you bore cut and come in above that and over lap your bore cut. The strap will hold until pressure is put on the rope so you can in a sense even come out of the tree before you get a pull from the rope so you will be out of harms way.

 

[Mr.Roehler]

If this is your concern you might try what is called a snap cut. if the top of the tree has enough eight and such going in the direction you want it that's even better. If you can set a tag line further up than where you're going to cut. Then make an open face cut with using a 20 degree undercut with a 70 degree top cut that will add up to a 90 degree face notch. Then using the lower tip of the bar on the saw you can bore cut into the tree leaving some hinge between this cut and your face notch. Cut on back leaving a strap that will hold the top you're cutting then come about 6-8 inches above where you bore cut and come in above that and over lap your bore cut. The strap will hold until pressure is put on the rope so you can in a sense even come out of the tree before you get a pull from the rope so you will be out of harms way.

 

[Mr.Roehler]

If this is your concern you might try what is called a snap cut. if the top of the tree has enough eight and such going in the direction you want it that's even better. If you can set a tag line further up than where you're going to cut. Then make an open face cut with using a 20 degree undercut with a 70 degree top cut that will add up to a 90 degree face notch. Then using the lower tip of the bar on the saw you can bore cut into the tree leaving some hinge between this cut and your face notch. Cut on back leaving a strap that will hold the top you're cutting then come about 6-8 inches above where you bore cut and come in above that and over lap your bore cut. The strap will hold until pressure is put on the rope so you can in a sense even come out of the tree before you get a pull from the rope so you will be out of harms way.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Welcome to AS a.p.

What diameter is the tree where you are planning on making your cut, and is it solid all the way through as best you can tell?

What saw are you planning on using aloft?

 

[ddhlakebound]

If this is your concern you might try what is called a snap cut. if the top of the tree has enough eight and such going in the direction you want it that's even better. If you can set a tag line further up than where you're going to cut. Then make an open face cut with using a 20 degree undercut with a 70 degree top cut that will add up to a 90 degree face notch. Then using the lower tip of the bar on the saw you can bore cut into the tree leaving some hinge between this cut and your face notch. Cut on back leaving a strap that will hold the top you're cutting then come about 6-8 inches above where you bore cut and come in above that and over lap your bore cut. The strap will hold until pressure is put on the rope so you can in a sense even come out of the tree before you get a pull from the rope so you will be out of harms way.

While using a bore cut is probably appropriate here, I certainly wouldnt want to be trying my first one topping a forked lead. Too easy to cut too much or not enough and get yourself in trouble. Best practiced on the ground until the user understands all the cuts, and is confident of making all the cuts precisely.

Also, theres no way in he77 that I'm coming down a stem with a notched and bored lead above me, thats a recipe for death or disaster. A breeze could come along and drop it on your head, or if you left too much strap, you've either got to use too much force to break it, or climb back up. Bad idea.

 

[tree md]

I always notch any tree I top before I drop it. I have seen some snap cut them but most I know notch it first. Always make sure you have a face cut on a top or it can split and kill you. I would also put a tag line in at a good leverage point above you and have someone pull it off of you just to be sure, being that this is your first one.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

why are they always engineers???????:hmm3grin2orange:

seriously, post some pics. taking off a big oak top could lead to disaster if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[SuperDIYer]

why are they always engineers???????:hmm3grin2orange:

1.) engineers generally try to approach all this stuff very analytically.
2.) engineers like tools more than most guys
3.) engineers look at long term and short term cost tradeoffs and see a tool investment to be able to do it themselves (which works out ASSUMING nobody gets hurt... I know... big assumption) as being very much worthwhile in the long run. This is the same reason I do my own 120/220 electrical in the house, basic supply and waste plumbing, yard work, etc.
4.) did I mention that engineers like tools?
5.) engineers can generally understand the physics involved
6.) Choice of saws, rigging equipment, etc. all appeals to the criteria determination skills that engineers live by.

Basically... engineers are too curious to leave it alone. And I am as guilty or more guilty than any others on this.

 

[begleytree]

so are we talking about what cut to make to top off? not enough info, and then again, a little too much irrelevant info is given imo.

so you want to knock off a few limbs to shorten up to save hitting a target? so notch them and make your backcut. why make it hard? KISS. imo open or flat notch makes no difference here.
But if its already leaning the way he wants, so why does he need an open face? I use an open face is so I can pull something up vertical and still have a tad more open notch before it closes and stops the pull when going against lean. a simple shallow undercut would work for him as long as he's cutting limbs. if he's talking notching the stem below the brush, then notch it and backcut it. imo, I would delimb and leave the crotch for the ride down, and for the pull rope/handline. but hey, I hate hooking down a spar when I have a rope right there with me and a crotch to put it in, either SRT or DRT down, but I feel better tied to a crotch than just around a smooth spar..

Might just be me, but I won't advocate a jump cut, snap cut, drop cut, or even a good sideways hinge to a new-ish guy/ unconfident guy over the net. basic stuff, and if that won't do, imo, they need a pro anyway.

did I mention that this thread needs pics? if I didn't, it does.....
in my mind I see a tree that splits into 2 forks and continues. if it was normal limb attachment to a single stem, I doubt he would have asked, but you never know.
[soapbox]
oh well. another good question is: should there be such a thing as a hobby arborist? another is: what is the expected lifespan of such an animal? or: does being an engineer make him more safe, or does it confuse him with principles he studied, but never applied in the real world 40" up a tree with his life hanging in the balance?
and the best question yet, and one I think folks (and me) should answer first: should we be giving advice to non arbs for in tree work? I know Id feel real bad if his wife logged in 2 weeks from now to tell us of an accident doing something he got talked into doing by members of this site.
[/soapbox]
-Ralph

 

[Adkpk]

oh well. another good question is: should there be such a thing as a hobby arborist? another is: what is the expected lifespan of such an animal? or: does being an engineer make him more safe, or does it confuse him with principles he studied, but never applied in the real world 40" up a tree with his life hanging in the balance?
and the best question yet, and one I think folks (and me) should answer first: should we be giving advice to non arbs for in tree work? I know Id feel real bad if his wife logged in 2 weeks from now to tell us of an accident doing something he got talked into doing by members of this site.
[/soapbox]
-Ralph

And how, Begs. I would have said it but I am only a "hobby climber", no such animal as a "hobby arborist". No such thing as a "hobby climber" either. You put your life on a limb you've gone pro. Project sounds ambitious in the least to me.
That last paragraph puts a lid on it for me. :bang: :bang: :bang:

 

[begleytree]

I'm honestly not sure my post was coherent to begin with.

 

[moray]

My main concern is getting most of the way thru the cut and the tree splitting out, taking out my fliplines and safety.

You might consider wrapping the trunk above the cut with some chain or several wraps of strong rope, as it sounds like you are dealing with a potential barber chair situation. If you post pics, the real pros here can advise you...

 

[apexpredator]

No pics, the tree is 200 miles north on my brother in law's property. It is located in the middle of a stand of large healthy trees we do not want to damage felling this one. Since it has grown in a amongst other trees, there are few limbs until 30' or so. The bulk of the trunk is growing/leaning in the direction we want it to fall, however...

As the tree has grown towards available sunlight, one "y" of the trunk has grown off towards an opening in the canopy. It is this part of the tree I want to lop off such that it will not hang up in the trees we want to keep and not damage. (Attached sketch).

I'll just make sure I'm tied off and notch cut it...

PS: I chose the term "hobby arborist" out of professional courtesy for those of you who do this for a living.

 

[DonnyO]

Probably best to be "tied in" twice. Is tied off an engineering term? If you can't post pics before, video it during and give the camera man this web address................

 

[treeseer]

Why do you want to cut this particular tree down?

 

[begleytree]

Why do you want to cut this particular tree down?

the way I read it he needs something to cut down to make firewood?
-Ralph

 

[apexpredator]

Dying. Probably root damage. A lot of other seemingly healthy trees dying here in VA. They just don't leaf out in the spring.

The concern is as it dies it is more likely to blow over in a storm. The top branches (on the linb I am trying to lp off) would reach the spot where by brother in law parks his camper, or it might get hung up in another tree, creating a tougher problem to solve later.

His lot is on a steep hillside precluding parking the camper elsewhere, adjacent to the stand of tree this on sits within.

In any case, tree's gotta go, and going to sooner than later. If it was just firewood, wouldn't be an issue. Easier trees to fell to burn.