re-grading yard and planting grass?

[Treenewby]

Hello all!!
I have a large tree in my back yard, no idea what it is, branches used to cover the entire back yard. I just trimmed it so I could get more sunlight in the back yard so the grass would grow, and to keep it from beating up my house. So far it hasn't grown, so I would like to prep my soil and plant new sod/turf. From what I've read so far, to do it right, I will have to till the soil to a depth of about 4-6 inches. I don't want to spend the $$ on the new grass just to watch it slowly die. The large tree in question has roots running all over the yard. The question is, how far away from the base of the tree do I need to be to make sure I don't kill it.

 

[bepperb]

First off if you're planting grass seed in July you haven't done enough reading on the subject. I think the conservative answer for roto-tilling six inches deep you would have to be outside the drip line. I doubt that's what you want, though, because you trimmed the tree so you could grow grass below it.

If this were me I would wait until fall. Pay someone to core aerate the lawn. Topdress it with compost if you can and seed then. I think core aeration will be easier on the roots and better for the soil health anyway.

If you really want to do this right get a soil sample now to see if you would need any amendments before you plant seed. Probably 10~20 bucks at your county extension office.

As a person with a wooded back yard and lawn co-existing it's not an easy task. Plan on keeping the tree pruned pretty high and a light reseeding every fall.

 

[Treenewby]

No planting in July in Texas, unless you like watching stuff wilt and die, and no not seed, laying turf/sod. No, no, researching first. I've found it to be the best and cheapest way to do things, do it right the first time, rather than trial and error. Problem with adding to what I have already is the height of my slab. Raise the yard, flood my house. With the amount of roots, airation would be difficult at best. Yeah, outside the drip line wouldn't do me any good. Right now my yard looks like a desert. Having the soil tested is on the list. The tilling would be to incorporate any additives into the soil.

 

[D&B Mack]

No planting in July in Texas, unless you like watching stuff wilt and die, and no not seed, laying turf/sod. No, no, researching first. I've found it to be the best and cheapest way to do things, do it right the first time, rather than trial and error. Problem with adding to what I have already is the height of my slab. Raise the yard, flood my house. With the amount of roots, airation would be difficult at best. Yeah, outside the drip line wouldn't do me any good. Right now my yard looks like a desert. Having the soil tested is on the list. The tilling would be to incorporate any additives into the soil.

If you can't aerate due to the roots, how will you till?

You want to till 4-6" yes, but you typically want about 6" of good topsoil as well.

For planting under the tree, make sure you get a shade mix or at least a sun/shade combo.

 

[bepperb]

If you can't add a lot of bulk definitely get a soil test and then you can add only what's really necessary. I'd still plan on getting someone with a power aerator out there, they'll get penetration for sure and be less damaging to the tree. I think [sight unseen] that a tiller is out of the question inside the drip line. Otherwise spreading an inch of compost and sodding over the top probably isn't out of the question either. That would give you the most organic matter with the least buildup in height and damage to the roots.

Really if you can get the soil test and follow their recommendations and then sod you should be fine. But sod takes a ton of water so I'd put it off until fall.

 

[Treenewby]

If you can't aerate due to the roots, how will you till?

You want to till 4-6" yes, but you typically want about 6" of good topsoil as well.

For planting under the tree, make sure you get a shade mix or at least a sun/shade combo.

Removal of the roots was what I was thinking, but everyone seems very opposed to that. Which is why I asked before I killed my tree.

 

[Treenewby]

I'd think in Texas that a big tree and shade would be a good thing. Guess not.


It's supposed to get to 100F here today.

Yes, definetly love my shade tree, thats why I'm here. Don't want to kill it. I'm tired of the kids and dog tracking in all the dirt from the back yard, wanted some grass back there. It's a little more pleasing to the eye, and I get mini-dust storms when the wind blows.

 

[Treenewby]

If you can't add a lot of bulk definitely get a soil test and then you can add only what's really necessary. I'd still plan on getting someone with a power aerator out there, they'll get penetration for sure and be less damaging to the tree. I think [sight unseen] that a tiller is out of the question inside the drip line. Otherwise spreading an inch of compost and sodding over the top probably isn't out of the question either. That would give you the most organic matter with the least buildup in height and damage to the roots.

Really if you can get the soil test and follow their recommendations and then sod you should be fine. But sod takes a ton of water so I'd put it off until fall.

Thanks guys, I believe this is what I'm going to try. One more summer with the barren wastes, start slowly prepping the soil now, then when it cools of a bit I will get my new grass.

 

[D&B Mack]

Removal of the roots was what I was thinking, but everyone seems very opposed to that. Which is why I asked before I killed my tree.

You could aerate by hand, since it isn't that large of an area (under the tree). This would prevent any significant root damage.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Really need to know the species to determine if or how much you can disturb the root system, or whether you can even cover it with an inch plus sod without causing the tree to begin to decline. And it would be quite helpful to see the tree as it is now, and the surrounding yard.

Large, mature trees almost never do well with significant changes to their growing environment.

 

[Zale]

Think about a mulch ring around the base of the tree. The bigger the better. If the shade underneath the tree is dense, your grass will not do well and lead to much frustration on your part. Turf outside the dripline will do well.

 

[Toddppm]

I dunno, No idea what kind of tree it is, used to cover the whole yard, just trimmed it so can get some sun.

You might have killed the tree already if it was that big?

 

[Treenewby]

Really need to know the species to determine if or how much you can disturb the root system, or whether you can even cover it with an inch plus sod without causing the tree to begin to decline. And it would be quite helpful to see the tree as it is now, and the surrounding yard.

Large, mature trees almost never do well with significant changes to their growing environment.

I'll take some pics of it. Been wondering what it was. When we moved in 5 years ago, the back yard was covered with grass. As the limbs grew the grass started to die. Got to the point where the entire back yard was shaded. I cut 2 rather large branches to get it away from the house and give more sun.

 

[Treenewby]

I dunno, No idea what kind of tree it is, used to cover the whole yard, just trimmed it so can get some sun.

You might have killed the tree already if it was that big?

It is a big tree, but also a small yard. entire lot is only 0.09 acres. Tree is on the back fence line. I think the back yard is 30'x30', maybe less.

 

[Treenewby]

Think about a mulch ring around the base of the tree. The bigger the better. If the shade underneath the tree is dense, your grass will not do well and lead to much frustration on your part. Turf outside the dripline will do well.[/QUOTE


Yep, thats where I am now. Outside the dripline is the house.

 

[Treenewby]

It's a shame more people don't apreciate trees for what they are.


This tree should not have grass growing underneath it and the attempt to grow grass is likely
result in damage and death to the tree.



After the grass is planted......then the grass will need water....more water than the tree wants......then come the herbicides to kill broad leaf weeds.....then the 30-0-0 fert for the grass.....then the tree starts to decline.........



It's a downward sprial.

Mulch the area under the tree and forget about the lawn. Like has been said...the tree is likely already damaged.

Thats a little presumptuous. I do appreciate my tree, I live in Texas, cool shade is a commodity. I'm not a tree hugger, although I agree that we should protect them...to a point, and I do understand all that trees provide for us. IE: oxygen, shade, housing for critters.....
I am a little ignorant on the subject of caring for them, and that's why I'm here.

Again, when I moved in there was grass all over the back yard, as the tree grew and the grass died, I was more interested in the shade than the grass. When the branches threatened to beat up my roof, and I grew tired of all the dirt from the back yard being drug all over the house. I decided to trim the offending branches, and hope that the grass would come back on its own.

Don't care about weeds, I have a lawn mower. Not super concerned with fertilizing all that much. Thats why I wanted to do the grass right the first time. It means less fertilizing and less water.

 

[bepperb]

If it was grass or trees in the yard grass would win. I wouldn't tell my kids they couldn't play outside because that area is reserved specifically for the tree... for all of eternity.

But amazingly I have a good mix of them in my yard, and when I look around the neighborhood I'm not alone. It seems like if you put a circle of mulch below it (not out to the drip line, a few feet) you'll be fine... as evidenced by a looking out a window. Maybe not just any window, but I'd bet that at least two thirds of the windows across the USA have some tree growing in a field of grass somewhere before the horizon. To be honest I have grass right up to a few of my trees and just have a few inches of mulch and they somehow make it.

"This tree should not have grass growing underneath it and the attempt to grow grass is likely result in damage and death to the tree. "

All this without even seeing a picture of the tree??? Wow... just... wow. You must be able to communicate with it telepathically.

Maybe everything is bigger in Texas so you'll have to make your mulch circle a little bigger?

 

[sgreanbeans]

Come to a tree forum, get the good info, the right way, then argue about it, priceless. He doesn't need to be telepathic, he is a Arborist, look it up, they work with trees, might know a thing or two.
Every tree that is in a residential area with turf around it, should have a mulch ring around it instead, every tree. Will it benefit, always. Does it have too, no. Fat people are allowed to wear spandex, doesn't make it right.

 

[bepperb]

Come to a tree forum, get the good info, the right way, then argue about it, priceless. He doesn't need to be telepathic, he is a Arborist, look it up, they work with trees, might know a thing or two.
Every tree that is in a residential area with turf around it, should have a mulch ring around it instead, every tree. Will it benefit, always. Does it have too, no. Fat people are allowed to wear spandex, doesn't make it right.

If people are coming here and asking questions (which is what this forum is for) and are getting a one sided black and white answer based on basically nothing (I still haven't seen what type of tree it is, or a picture of it) it doesn't take an arborist to figure out it's bad advice.

It's funny... the "I don't know what kind of tree it is but I know it's going to die" advice is in the same catagory as the one size fits all spandex your fat people wear. Doesn't mean spandex isn't for everyone (maybe the tree will die) but it's worth asking someone how fat they are before you sell it to them. Same thing here, would be worth asking what kind of tree we're talking about before you predict complete death of it.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Thats a little presumptuous. I do appreciate my tree, I live in Texas, cool shade is a commodity. I'm not a tree hugger, although I agree that we should protect them...to a point, and I do understand all that trees provide for us. IE: oxygen, shade, housing for critters.....
I am a little ignorant on the subject of caring for them, and that's why I'm here.

Again, when I moved in there was grass all over the back yard, as the tree grew and the grass died, I was more interested in the shade than the grass. When the branches threatened to beat up my roof, and I grew tired of all the dirt from the back yard being drug all over the house. I decided to trim the offending branches, and hope that the grass would come back on its own.

Don't care about weeds, I have a lawn mower. Not super concerned with fertilizing all that much. Thats why I wanted to do the grass right the first time. It means less fertilizing and less water.

With all due respect, and no malice whatsoever.....

You're words say you appreciate your tree, but your actions do not back that up. You were ignorant on the subject of caring for trees when you decided to remove a couple large limbs, but you did it anyway.

We've not yet seen the cuts, and whether or not you've violated the branch protection zone on what is already probably a too big cut. How those cuts were made, how big they are, species, and other variables will determine how much strength the tree will lose as it decays from those cuts.

Don't care about weeds, I have a lawn mower.

Great, so instead of dumping herbicide, the tree can get the tops of the exposed roots shaved off, and the soil more compacted from regular mowing.

Not super concerned with fertilizing all that much.

I'm sure the pests and pathogens which love lush, nitrogen rich growth will settle for only a bit of extra nitrogen, it's not all that much, right? And the rhizosphere isn't affected "all that much" from any chemical ferts.

Thats why I wanted to do the grass right the first time. It means less fertilizing and less water.

I'm not sure that you understand grass any better than you do trees. If you don't do grass right, it'll just be dead. If you do do it right, it's going to require more water than the tree would prefer, and more fertilizer than the tree would prefer, or your grass just wont grow there.