Real-world cost savins with OWB and hot water. Coming from electric heat.

[OH_Varmntr]

Tried searching but didn't come up with much. I'm going to be investing in an OWB for next year. Already have it narrowed down to a Portage and Main Optimiser 250 if I can set aside enough cash.

I have electric baseboard heat in my 3600sq ft home. I've ran it since I moved in last February and only ran it just enough to keep from freezing. House was about 62* and I was still experiencing >$500/month electric bills.

I installed a Norseman add-on wood burning furnace in the basement that I use to blow hot air into the basement. I have registers in the first and second floors to let convection do the work and so far the basement stays about 90*, the first floor about 75*, and the second floor about 70*. Works very well, but the furnace is very inefficient and hogs the wood. But I'll feed it every hour if needed, as there's no way I could afford the electric bills I paid last year.

So those who have switched, what is your cost savings when using an OWB to heat the house and the hot water? Talked to a gentleman who has a Central Boiler and said his electric bill in the winter is about $70, when in the summer it's about $170. He said it costs that much to heat their water in their home. If I can drop the electric bill $100 a month just by heating the hot water year round, I plan on doing so.

I just wanted to know if anyone here has sat down and crunched the numbers to see what you are saving.

Thank you!

 

[blackdogon57]

If you have a free supply of wood and are willing to process 10+ cords of wood per year you should come out ahead. For me is was a no brainer]
I was burning 1000+ gallons of heating oil and heating a separate 1500 sq foot building with electric. I now burn no oil and much less hydro. Do
not under estimate the amount of work involved. Good luck.

 

[ch4man]

Real-world cost savins with OWB and hot water. Coming from electric heat.

I have an OWB that I installed last year, this is my second heating season with it. I heat my 3200 sf + farmhouse, two water heaters,and heat my shop which is a 30x40 pole barn. My heater saves an average of $200-240 per month during heating season. I run my OWB from Oct-April. I don't run it for water heating during the warmer months because for me the cost savings arent enough to warrant it. I only save around $25 per month for water and I am way too busy in the warm season to tend to the heater. Besides for me the heater needs some off season maintenance (cleaning,testing water,etc..)

I do really enjoy the OWB and would recommend it to anyone that enjoys cutting and burning wood. my family loves the unlimited hot water the most. My cost savings would be more substantial if I only considered heating the home and DHW. With the shop it adds more heat than I had prior to going with the OWB. However, you asked for real world numbers and wanted to give you that.

BTW , my electric hasnt been in the two digit numbers in several years. My lowest monthly electric is around $110.

 

[mschoff]

My electric bill drop when I started to use my owb to heat my water 87.00 a month from 185.00 and my wife loves that she pays the bill.

 

[russhd1997]

My water is heated by the oil fired boiler that was the primary source of heat in my house. I used to use 100 gallons of oil in the non heating season for hot water. Now I run my OWB year round and use about a cord of wood in that time. If I had to buy the wood it wouldn't be enough of a saving to make it worth running the OWB for just hot water. I don't buy my wood so it is a no brainer for me. Feed the OWB every 2 or 3 days and save the money.

 

[memory]

You should be able to save $100 a month easy. We just hooked up a second 80 gallon water heater to our Central Boiler 6048 and that water heater alone saves us over $100 on our electric bill. That is why we burn all year. But it does eat alot more wood too. I am not too sure about everything else. We have 2 water heaters hooked up and we heat the house as well.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Thank you, all good information.

All my wood is free. I have sole cutting rights to clear 2 ditchbanks on a 210 acre farm that's coming out of CRP program in 2 years. There is enough wood there to last 5 or 6 years I bet, all I have to do is go get it and be able to store it.

I love cutting wood but I hate tending my wood furnace every 5 or 6 hours as the wife lets it go out at night and when I get home from work in the morning I have to start a fire all over again. Might not be that crucial right now as it's not that cold out, but when it gets down in the single digits it will.

If I can save some money in the off season I will. I enjoy cutting enough to make it worth my while. But I'm young and that will most likely change as I get older.

I figured I would be looking at close to $700/month electric bill if I kept the house ~70-72 degrees with my baseboards. My bill for August was $178 (my bill payment schedule is 2 months behind don't as me why). Only $103 of that is actually from power useage. And I run 2 refrigerators. I could always move all my beer in the house and unplug the refer in the garage.

My electricity costs about 13.5 cents per KWH after taxes, a $26/month distribution charge and a $36.20/month Wholesale Power Cost Adjustment charge. It's crazy, I get skinned about $75/month in extra charges every month.

So if I can save a good portion of that, I'll be happy.

I'm just trying to get a good idea of the possibilities with an OWB.

 

[djones]

My house was built in 1857 and had little insulation in it when we moved in over 20 years ago. We have an oil fired hot water boiler to heat the house and water supply. When we moved in the oil cost for the winter months was close to $2000 per season. We switched to an OWB in 2005 and it has paid for itself already in savings and we now only use the oil in the summer months for hot water. We go through about 125 gals between May and September. Our oil costs are now about $350 to $400 per year. Since I am now retired we don't count my time in the costs of operation but there are the costs of gas and oil for the chainsaws, tractor, saw repairs etc that do have to be considered. The wood is free but has to be cut and split, stacked and covered. The fact that I am not paying the oil company every month anymore brings a smile to my face and the times when I do get a delivery are so infrequent the the delivery driver thinks that we have a very efficient boiler set-up.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

I'm on year # 4 wih my OWB, with fuel oil prices, I will recoup my initial investment this year, minus the purchase last year of the MS-460.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Since I am now retired we don't count my time in the costs of operation but there are the costs of gas and oil for the chainsaws, tractor, saw repairs etc that do have to be considered. The wood is free but has to be cut and split, stacked and covered.

I would hate to sit down and figure up how much I've spent this year on everything to burn wood. Got 2 saws for free, bought one for $250, two others for $50 each, have about $700 or more in parts, rebuilding a few and general tune ups. Went through 3 gals of bar oil so far, 8 bottles of mix oil, bought $180 worth of safety gear, rope.

Bought a 3/4 ton diesel truck to pull our trailer too. That's $10k. So I'm in about $12k or so now. What's another $12k next year for an OWB right? :hmm3grin2orange:

But loooking back at our first electric bills, I'm looking to save about $250 a month with my current setup.

 

[Fifelaker]

You should save enough to warrant the purchase.I'm on year nine my last gas bill for winter was a little over $2000. My wood is free also I figure $100-$200 in fuel,oil,saw stuff plus a lot of sweat but It's worth every penny and drop of sweat. Someone suggested I send the gas co. a christmas card with a picture of my boiler and wood pile.

 

[J1m]

OH_Varmntr,

I think you already know my opinion after reading my P&M thread. We love ours. And after spending $5,000 last year on oil just during the months of February to May, it really was a no brainer for us.

The initial investment is admittedly huge. I'm almost scared to add all this up, but here goes: $11,500 for the unit, $1,850 for thermopex and conduit, $5,600 for indoor plumbing and labor, $1,500 for unexpected odds and ends the previous owners screwed up and we had to fix. Plus we bought 17 cord of wood @ $1960, splitter for $2,000, gas & oil for approximately $200, already owned a saw. There's probably a few things I'm forgetting, but what's the total? $24,610. Ouch.

But. At the expense of sounding like a MasterCard commercial...Not hearing the sound of the oil furnace kick on every five minutes? Priceless.

So, our payback is probably in the 6-7 year range depending on how much wood we end up burning.

You'll have nay-sayers in your friend/coworker group talk about how much of a PITA processing wood is but you've already said that wasn't a problem for you. They'll also question your sanity about going out twice a day to feed the thing especially in the cold months - but for us, we have a dog that needs to go out 3-4 times a day anyway. I can check my temps, gassification, gather wood and feed the furnace all in the time it takes my dog to go #1 & #2 so it's really not even an arguable point for us!

By the way, I know you said your dealer is an hour away? If you call the nice people up at P&M with a credit card # they will ship the stove directly to your house. You just need to figure out how to get it off the truck.

Good luck and let me know if you have other questions.

 

[John D]

My OWB setup adds about 15-20.00 a month in electric over using the oil fired boiler.....When i burned oil I used 1100-1200 gallons a year,it was costing 3500 the last year I bought oil....It was projected to be 5000 the next.....thats when I bought the OWB...Im in my 4th season burning and Ive saved about 17000 in heating oil...the Shaver 250 was 6400 delivered,I have 3200 in Pex tubing,circulators,heat exchangers,copper, and fittings, 450 in my slab and block risers....and 2000 in my 20x21x6 foot sides code approved carport with sides...Ive spent about 2200 on 4 saws and chains/bars. I have 2 372xps,a 395xp and a 345...I spent 800 on a splitter i made,and 100 on Fiskars,and sledge/mauls...Im sure ive spent a bunch on fuel and stuff...so my estimate is 15,100....add fuel probably 16000....so Ive passed my "paid for" point already,and am enjoying the excercise and warm home....the air quality in my house is better,so more oil/burning dust smells from the oil fired boiler room,no more noise and woosh shutdowns 30x a day from the weil mcclain boiler..I have 3 children (16,14,12)and they all help gather wood,and cut and stack it...they ride ATVs and are now wood scavengers as well,they scout out leaning and dead trees now,they look as the woods differently ,and i think its teaching them about hard work..We have burned 360 days of the year the last 2 years because I have less than 100 gallons of oil left,and I cant get less than 150 gallons for 540 dollars delivered,and i just cant justify paying that when im overloaded with wood sources and im still young enough to cut and stack....

 

[AIM]

Just to chime in here. I figured it up once that it costs me about $8 per truckload of wood. I think I figured a 10 year life for a saw. gas for truck and saw. new chain or two a year. etc etc.
Nit picken away I came to about $8.
I average about a truckload a week so I am at $32 a month not including the electric to run my OWB.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

Thank you to everyone who has chimed in.

I definately see the financial advantage in an OWB, especially after a few years where it's paid off.

I figure if I do all the labor myself, like concrete, pick the unit up, install it, do all the plumbing and wiring myself, etc...I can save a bunch of money as well.

I figure for about $15k I can have it installed and ready to rock?

If I can save $50 a month on electricity just by heating hot water alone, that's $600 a year right there. And I'm being conservative with the $50 a month, I believe. Dead of winter, my electric bill was ~$500, and like I said that's with it being about 62 degrees in the house. Wife doesn't like that. If I kept it 72 degrees like it is with wood heat, I'd expect it to be about $700 a month.

So I figure from December to March if I can save $350 a month, again being conservative on the figure, that's another $1400.

There's $2000 a year in savings already, which would pay for the OWB and all the installation costs in about 7 1/2 years. But I'd imagine it would be more of a cost savings than that.

Here's another advantage that I would greatly appreciate with burning outside: no longer would I constantly have a worry about burning my house down. I could really really really get used to that! That's worth a million bucks in my opinion.

 

[jrider]

Got my first OWB 4 weeks ago - the P&M Optimizer 250 - and couldn't be happier so far. I have $14,000 into everything. I sell about 50-70 cords of wood a year and will be burning the odds/ends/uggy stuff that I wouldn't be able to sell until at least the beginning of January so my savings is huge. I figured my pay back time will be 4 years. And as many people will say, you can now keep the thermostat set as high as you want and not really care.
You don't have the worry about always starting a fire as soon as you get home, the mess inside your house, uneven temperatures in your house, and the biggest one - not worrying about a fire inside your house. If you have access to cheap/free wood its a no brainer.

 

[greendohn]

Never really crunched the numbers...

Before the OWB I was using an insert, keeping it fired like I was running a foundry and still buying L.P. to the effect of two fill up's a year(500 gal tank) with most of the house still being cold all winter. (old house that's getting remodeled as money allows),,electric blankets for both the kids beds and one on mommy an' daddy's "work bench", vent-less gas heater in bath room, 1st couple winters even run the oven to knock the cold out of kitchen, sleepin' in the livin' room so I could get up and feed wood stove at 2a.m.ect, ect,, Since the OWB install the whole house stays at 72-74 degrees, every room all winter. Just took delivery for L.P. $$484.00(200 gal. minimum delivery),,1st time in 15 months!!! for the water heater. (and I like to keep L.P. in reserve for 90+ furnace)..lookin' to hook OWB to water heater next spring to put more distance between those 200gal min. L.P. fill ups. I did the install my self, 88 feet from the house, for under 7 grand. Cant really put a figure on the $$$$ savings, or the return on price of OWB. I never tried to keep the whole house at 72-74 degrees with L.P.,,No more fire risk/cost from electric blankets nor wood stove, no more mess nor cob webs from packing wood into house, no more cold rooms away from wood stove... no more sittin' on a cold crapper for my mornin' constitution,, How do you put a price on that??? I dunno,,BUT I LIKE IT!! Wish I'd installed one 15 years ago.

 

[Biker Dude]

I see a couple of potential problems with your situation, the biggest being that you have no duct work. If you plan to circulate heat by convection only, a boiler would be much less efficient than your wood stove. A boiler uses twice the wood that an indoor stove does on average so depending on how you plan to circulate the heat you might actually be worse off. Your best choice is to switch your electric baseboards for hot water baseboards. It would be the easiest, most efficient method but it would increase your up-front expense.

 

[russhd1997]

Thank you to everyone who has chimed in.

I definately see the financial advantage in an OWB, especially after a few years where it's paid off.

I figure if I do all the labor myself, like concrete, pick the unit up, install it, do all the plumbing and wiring myself, etc...I can save a bunch of money as well.

I figure for about $15k I can have it installed and ready to rock?

If I can save $50 a month on electricity just by heating hot water alone, that's $600 a year right there. And I'm being conservative with the $50 a month, I believe. Dead of winter, my electric bill was ~$500, and like I said that's with it being about 62 degrees in the house. Wife doesn't like that. If I kept it 72 degrees like it is with wood heat, I'd expect it to be about $700 a month.

So I figure from December to March if I can save $350 a month, again being conservative on the figure, that's another $1400.

There's $2000 a year in savings already, which would pay for the OWB and all the installation costs in about 7 1/2 years. But I'd imagine it would be more of a cost savings than that.

Here's another advantage that I would greatly appreciate with burning outside: no longer would I constantly have a worry about burning my house down. I could really really really get used to that! That's worth a million bucks in my opinion.

My insurance company gives me a 2% discount on my HO insurance because with the OWB my primary heat source isn't in the house. Less risk of fire.

 

[Laird]

I'm on year # 4 wih my OWB, with fuel oil prices, I will recoup my initial investment this year, minus the purchase last year of the MS-460.

Hey! I can say exactly the same thing! Right down to the 460!:msp_thumbsup: