resaw after dry or cut thin to start?

[Backwood]

I want to end up with pcs. 1/4" to 1/2" thick x 8"wide x 24" long. :rockn: :rockn: Should I go ahead and cut them to size( allowing just a little extra for planing ) or would you cut 4/4 then resaw after dry? I'm talking figured wood, crotch ,spalted etc...
I am thinking go ahead and cut thin ? Advantages being it would dry quicker, disadvantages would be ????

 

[BobL]

Advantages being it would dry quicker, disadvantages would be ????

Twisting, bowing and checking? COmpletel loss of board?

 

[aquan8tor]

cut it thick. You could lose everything if it decides to move while drying. Its easier to cut it later and resaw than risk it cracking or twisting too much.

 

[timberwolf]

Esp with figured wood, it is quite unstable and will warp and split alot when drying, even 4/4 figgured wood can be problems for air drying. Needs to dry real slow to work.

An option for small pieces is to boil the wood, then clamp it in place and dry it. It dries faster after it has been boiled, also this helps remove internal stresses from the fibers. An option too is the deep freeze, they can dry small pieces of wood very nicely in a few months.

 

[Bushler]

No free lunch. Trying to make flat boards out of twisted sister is pretty tough.

However you decide to dry the lumber, or how thick to cut it is secondary to how you mill the wood in relation to the grain and figure. Try to keep your boards consistent in relation to the heart. Try to avoid milling boards that have both sap and heart wood.

Since you are milling crotch, etc. that's going to be hard to do.

I had some limited luck by milling slightly fat, then carefull coating the end grain, then carefully stickering the boards, and finally I used banding straps to cinch the stack tight. I put wedges under the strapping, and every couple weeks would tighten the strapping by driving the wedges in further under the strapping. Had the whole stack on a pallet so I could move it around with the forklift.

Finally, after 1 year I delivered the wood to the customer, and he rejected it because he had just bought some green wood from another source. Talk about a bummer! (air dried highly figured myrtle wood burns nice)

The only way to really make highly figured hardwood stable is to make it into veneer and laminate it to a backing.

 

[Backwood]

Thanks guys. Figured kindling is not what I am looking for . Will cut thick. Is nice to learn from your mistakes before you make them, this site is a lot of help .

Bushler, fire can be a good stress reliver. I reclaimed a gun cabinet from a no good bro-in-law 15 years ago. Had 125 in materials , only charged 140 total ($15 profit??).3 years later he still couldnt come up with the first $20. Poured a quart of gas inside, tied a rag to a stick and threw it, BOOM much more enjoyable than $15.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Backwoods]

Slow drying is the key, and that takes lots of patients.
Cut it thick and completely submerge in water for 2 years or more. Any part that sticks out of the water will be lost. Remove it from the water on a cool damp day and let it drip dry over night, end seal all surfaces and sticker it, pack the whole thing with shavings and place it in a cool dry place that will not get any sun for another 2 years. Unpack and finish air-drying as normal. Never let it see the sun or it will turn to firewood. This is one of the reasons figured wood is so valuable.

 

[woodshop]

Slow drying is the key, and that takes lots of patients.
Cut it thick and completely submerge in water for 2 years or more. Any part that sticks out of the water will be lost. Remove it from the water on a cool damp day and let it drip dry over night, end seal all surfaces and sticker it, pack the whole thing with shavings and place it in a cool dry place that will not get any sun for another 2 years. Unpack and finish air-drying as normal. Never let it see the sun or it will turn to firewood. This is one of the reasons figured wood is so valuable.

Wow... that's a lot of work, and you don't get to use your lumber for four years? I agree, the key to air drying lumber without any checking or defects is to dry it SLOW. Backwoods, just curious though... if most wood is basically saturated when it's in the tree, what is the point of first submerging it in water for two years before letting it start to dry out. Also, how thick are we talking for that second two years of "slow drying in a cool dry place packed with shavings"? Virtually all hardwood and softwood here on the east coast 5/4 or 6/4 will be dry in way less than two years. In usually less than a year, it reaches an equilibrium here outside where it stays about 15% MC. At that point, it will take in or release moisture sitting in that stickered stack depending on the relative humidity. Point being once it dries to that 15% there is little value in keeping it stickered. I guess maybe the packing in shavings slows it down that much that it doesn't get down to that equilibrium in a year?

 

[Bushler]

Myrtle will cure to approx. 20% MC at a rate of 1"/yr. stacked and stickered in the shade. That's on the coast where humidity is pretty high.

At 20% the boards are still pretty straight, but when you take it inside and down to 10-15% it will get rude. Seems like that last 5% really makes it do the twist and shout. Real heartbreaker for those that build something nice out of 20% wood, and then take in inside....

I've gotten to the point that I only cut the nicer logs, and try to get as much quarter sawn as I can. After trying to run highly figured wood through the shaper or planer I just plain quit.

I think the key to Backwood's success is the word, 'patience', something I don't have.

 

[woodshop]

Myrtle will cure to approx. 20% MC at a rate of 1"/yr. stacked and stickered in the shade. That's on the coast where humidity is pretty high.

At 20% the boards are still pretty straight, but when you take it inside and down to 10-15% it will get rude. Seems like that last 5% really makes it do the twist and shout. Real heartbreaker for those that build something nice out of 20% wood, and then take in inside....

I think the key here is species and location... lots of variables. Every wood has it's ways. You mentioned Myrtle, to 20% one year per inch. I just came from the woodshop few minutes ago and took this pic of a quick and dirty drawer I made for under some equipment.

Seventeen years ago I planted a few hybrid poplars in my back yard. Exactly 3 1/2 weeks ago the wood I just made this drawer from, which was one of those trees, was still in tree form. I dropped the tree, milled it into 5/4 (actually was 1 1/8 inch), stickered the (wet saturated) wood and it has been drying for that 3 1/2 weeks. This morning I stuck my Wagner pinless on it and it read 12% MC. I brought three boards of it down to the shop, ran them through the jointer/planer/table saw and then threw this drawer together with some Titebond III and a brad nailer. I can tell you from past experience with this wood (I did this same thing with one of the trees last year), that the drawer will remain stable from now on. Point is, I could not have done this with cherry or walnut or oak... certainly not with your Myrtle, but with poplar yes. Tree to drawer in less than 4 weeks of spring weather. I have dried and used eastern white pine, as well as eastern redcedar in only a month of drying from log to woodshop also and the wood remained dry and stable. So I guess it's not only location location location... but in this case it's also thickness, thickness, thickness and species species species!!

 

[Backwoods]

Wow... that's a lot of work, and you don't get to use your lumber for four years? I agree, the key to air drying lumber without any checking or defects is to dry it SLOW. Backwoods, just curious though... if most wood is basically saturated when it's in the tree, what is the point of first submerging it in water for two years before letting it start to dry out. Also, how thick are we talking for that second two years of "slow drying in a cool dry place packed with shavings"? Virtually all hardwood and softwood here on the east coast 5/4 or 6/4 will be dry in way less than two years. In usually less than a year, it reaches an equilibrium here outside where it stays about 15% MC. At that point, it will take in or release moisture sitting in that stickered stack depending on the relative humidity. Point being once it dries to that 15% there is little value in keeping it stickered. I guess maybe the packing in shavings slows it down that much that it doesn't get down to that equilibrium in a year?

Thickness is dependent on what you plan to use it for, add an extera 1/4-3/8 for twist and bow, and an extra 1" in width so that you have room to straighten the wood up on the jounter and table saw.

The reason for submerging in water is that it allows the moisture that is trapped with in the cells to gradually escape with out distorting the cell structure. Once the wood is removed from the water, the water evaporates from around the cells. By doing this step gradually, it keeps the wood stable. The reason for packing with shavings is it slows the airflow so the moisture is removed slower. The jump from 20% moisture content down to 8% is critical.

Madrone is another wood that we have out here on the west coast that is difficult to dry. It is prone to cell collapse. Nevertheless, if you are successful the white, pink, and dark red tones make for a great color contrast.

 

[Bushler]

Species effects drying rate for sure. P0 Cedar is dry in a couple months, Red Alder even faster.

Myrtle and Madrone are the crankiest trees I've ever milled.

I really like milling Port Orford cedar. Fun wood to work with too. Resists splitting from fasteners. You can nail or screw it close to the end of the board. Makes good boat ribs.

 

[Backwood]

do any of you use a kiln? Would putting it in a kiln and drying it slower than unfigured wood be better? For instance in the kiln walnut dries at around 8% per day, could you dry it (figured wood) in a kiln at say 1% or 2% a day? Or is air drying first needed?

Nice boats , looks like plywood, is it something other than paint on the inside? outside?

 

[Bushler]

Port Orford cedar ribs, AA Marine fir plywood sides and bottom. White oak guards, hand rails and chines, myrtle bow stem.

1 layer of fiberglass and cloth on the bottom (over the plywood).

Petit EasyPoxy paint over Petit White Yacht Primer, inside and out.

 

[Burlhunter13]

Thickness is dependent on what you plan to use it for, add an extera 1/4-3/8 for twist and bow, and an extra 1" in width so that you have room to straighten the wood up on the jounter and table saw.

The reason for submerging in water is that it allows the moisture that is trapped with in the cells to gradually escape with out distorting the cell structure. Once the wood is removed from the water, the water evaporates from around the cells. By doing this step gradually, it keeps the wood stable. The reason for packing with shavings is it slows the airflow so the moisture is removed slower. The jump from 20% moisture content down to 8% is critical.

Madrone is another wood that we have out here on the west coast that is difficult to dry. It is prone to cell collapse. Nevertheless, if you are successful the white, pink, and dark red tones make for a great color contrast.

You are the man Backwoods! Get it done right!