Rope Guide Question

[seanlarkin]

We have a customer complaint (well not so much a complaint as an observation and search for reason) about his (Bluestreak) rope corkscrewing with the ART Rope Guide. This customer says that it never happened utilizing a ring & ring Friction Saver with the same line. Is anyone out there having this (what we call) problem? If so, could you name the type of rope? We’d like to know if it’s construction or brand specific. Thanks

-Sean

 

[tjk]

I think it is a combination of the hitch and the RG. I have had this problem also It seem to be worse with the fly. 16 strands not as bad. I just run it all out after each tree. If you are climbing alot of small-medium trees and using the same portion of rope it gets real bad. If you are climbing a variety of trees. its not so bad. I use a RG almost every day no real big problems. In small trees I use a more traditoinal Adjustable friction saver

 

[geofore]

BlueStreak

If you have noticed the BlueStreak likes to wrap up in a figure eight instead of loops, 16 strand weave does this. Samson told me to use the rope and each time to use the other end of the rope so it streches out and relaxes better. Much like you would flip your bar over on the chainsaws every day you need to switch which end of the rope you use from day to day to avoid or lessen the ropes curling up factor. I like the extra strength of the Blue so I put up with the switching ends, one end today and the other end tomorrow till the rope relaxes.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Since I started bucketing or bagging ropes I don't have any hockling issues. Coiling a rope can lead to more hockling.

Using a tool like the RG or a figure eight descender will put a twist into the rope. Because of the bending of the rope around a tight radius.

If this issue continues, the climber could tie off the end of the line and milk out the coils using a Klemheist or a shelled ascender. Something to milk out the hockles.

If a bagged and coiled rope were hung next to each other I think it would be evident that the coiled rope was in spirals where the bagged would be less twisted. This is another place where arbos are a little behind compared with rock climbers. Doing a mountaineering coil or figure eight coil will lead to less hockles. Too often I see arbos coiling their ropes and not straightening the coils. A good coil will have all of the loops neatly stacked not twisted.

Tom

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I too have found that the new tress hiches hockle the rope more. Soemtime the pullied FC's can make it worse.

I've found that shaking it out before extracting will make it lessof a problem. I did have it one time when not paying attention, pull a hockle-wad up into the pully. that made extraction difficult.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Watch the rope the next time you coil it up. See what direction it twists in and then wrap your tress cord in the opposite direction. Most likely opposite of the direction you wrap it in now.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

That would be very insightful if that works out like that Tim, very interesting......

i would say that 16 strands hockle more for me, and have attributed that to some spiraling sneeking in while working, then as the line relaxes it grips the core and the twists are kinda more locked in, even though 12's are a lil'more stiffer i think.

When storing, moving line for any purpose i think letting the standing end run completely free, as branch or other friction combs out twists as line is drawn through. i think that if the free end presents more resistance than the branch that is combing out curls, the curls can group, build and take the easiest way out. If that is passing thru your hand or combing branch so be it. That is why standing end should be perfectly free, so all curls can easily take that path of least resistance and evacuate rather than trap into storage.

As like, When using a pulley for support instead of branch, i think the path of least resistance for passing curls is to lock into the system, as pulley presents less resistance than friction hitch, so curls go up past that pulley instead of out.

i would think that using line is same direction, combing everything out off the end, cutting milked cover to maintain core would be the way to go; that part of these strategies is confusing me.

:alien:

 

[Rob Murphy]

.
I simply quit climbing on a pulley and use a homemade 2-ring friction saver. [/B]

Brian have you tried replacing the larger ring with a double locking steel biner?It has advantages of easier setup from the ground and relocating in the tree.
Also I thought that the twisting was because of my hitch.Ah so the distal does it too.Do you change to a decender(i am thinking you dont) when coming down?I suspect that the twisting is because of the tight coils the climbing line goes through.Bagging my long rope(50m) and looping my short rope(18m)seems to help ease the twisting.

 

[BigJohn]

I found out the other day how to retrieve the RG from the ground using a throwline to lower it. It doesn't require any adition setup in the tree prior to retrieving it. What I mean is you don't leave anything in the tree tied off to the RG. ????

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Big John,

You're teasing us! Don't kill us with anticipation man. How do you retrieve the RG? You gotta tell us!

Tom

 

[BigJohn]

Tom, I know you know Roachy. I was lucky enough to learn from him. I would have to get permision to let the secret out. We can't reveal too many tricks before the ITCC. You may want to ask him. Sometimes people want to keep things secret even though these forums are to teach others and learn from others. It's quite simple though but does involve using a different line and ring setup for the RG. I have to splice one up this weekend.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

If it's an IICC secret strategy, I can understand keeping your cards close to your chest.

I'll be curious if they are going to even allow the RG or Positioners to be used in competition. With the rule about not allowing 11 mm rope as climbing rope, I'm suspicious.

Tom

 

[Rob Murphy]

Puzzle?

But now we know it can be done!!

 

[Rob Murphy]

Ah!!! puzzle the puzzle.See who can work it out first. No fair to tease

 

[hillbilly]

I spent the evening getting tangled up in ropes and rings and
couldn't make it out.
Are you done competing?
Are you ready to share the secret?

 

[TREETX]

I saw some of the European guys using a seperate throwline to retrieve their ART pullied RG. It was nice because the RG didn't bounce off every limb and fall to the ground. It can be lowered. The draw back I could see is it involves climbing up and dropping out a throw line once the RG is set.

You are not allowed to drop anything from the tree right?? Maybe it is not dropping something because it is just dropping a tail like the tail of your life line?

I think it is a good technique because it gives you a back up incase the splice slips out of the little catch piece on the RG.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

This afternoon I stopped at Fresco and saw a newer version of the RG. The thin metal clip has been replaced with a small shackle.

Roachy sent me instructions about how to retrieve the RG but I haven't had time to decypher the method. When I do, I'll let you guys know. I'll probably post first on Tr**buzz though

Tom

 

[TREETX]

FYI

The RG I have from Drayer has a small shackle.

 

[TREETX]

Any news Tom?? Still dying to know and haven't seen it at the b*zz.

Hockles. My study on it. Reguardless of RG or no RG, a vt puts hockles in a rope. I don't have them with a distel.

My edelrid X-perience hockles the most and blue streak the least. XTC gets a few. I think the way I store my rope doesn't help.

 

[hillbilly]

Nathan, I'm working on some illustrations for the technique.
If we get the permission from roachy it will be posted after
the weekend.