Safe Falling of rotting Ash

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Dead Ash doesn't barber chair , "usually". Make your open face deeper. 1/3 to 1/2. When you do the release. Cut and get on it, don't lolly gag. Not saying you can't get a barber chair, but i haven't had one in years. More concerned about spring poles.
 
Big cedar back slabs are more like a T than a trigger as they go bar deep in the tree and usually disconnected from the hammer. More wood is cut on the far side so it can be reached from the safe side. Cutting is usually not bored but plunged off the dogs from each side.

Would need an aggressive chain to self-feed in on medium trees were you can't use the dogs. The other cuts are better options there.
That's one thing we don't mention as much... just as important as choosing a type of cut to make is to choose the order of cuts, and assess the "good" and "bad" side of the tree...
 
Dead Ash doesn't barber chair , "usually". Make your open face deeper. 1/3 to 1/2. When you do the release. Cut and get on it, don't lolly gag. Not saying you can't get a barber chair, but i haven't had one in years. More concerned about spring poles.
Dead Ash barber chairs, probably hundreds of times a day across the U.S., mostly due to poor technique and lack of experience... hence this thread, to try and prevent that...
 
Dead Ash doesn't barber chair , "usually". Make your open face deeper. 1/3 to 1/2. When you do the release. Cut and get on it, don't lolly gag. Not saying you can't get a barber chair, but i haven't had one in years. More concerned about spring poles.
To follow up on that, healthy looking aspen trees don't "usually" have dry rot at the base, and yet I climbed one and rigged the top 7 years ago... and rode it down... this is a zero sum game, and you only get to be wrong once... just sayin...
 
I just fell green ones that had top die-back on them. I figured it out fast that .5:1 ratio (6-12 pitch/26.6°)Humboldt was not open enough for Ash and other UK hardwoods. Birds mouth (pie) conventional or Swanson all start at 1:1 ratio (12-12 pitch/45°) It's a must being north of 40°in hardwoods. If it doesn't look enough then make a snipe stump. (Just a steep angle in the front of the undercut will delay the 'close time' and slide the butt to the ground fast.
 
To follow up on that, healthy looking aspen trees don't "usually" have dry rot at the base, and yet I climbed one and rigged the top 7 years ago... and rode it down... this is a zero sum game, and you only get to be wrong once... just sayin...
And in Baseball, if you can get on base 3 out of 10 times then you are worth millions. Got in the wrong buisness.
 
Dead ash doesnt have the top weight. To help it fall.
Your correct on not letting the notch close. But dead ash doesnt have the strength to hold and rip upwards around here anymore.
 
A commercial tree service tried to sell me on their EAB treatment. The magic solution for $500 each tree was guaranteed for 3 years.

NAH
A local logger removed them all and shipped to a mill. With a yield of 12K board feet the net job cost was $500. Spent the last three years chipping the debris.

This solution was the safest and is permanent.
 

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To follow up on that, healthy looking aspen trees don't "usually" have dry rot at the base, and yet I climbed one and rigged the top 7 years ago... and rode it down... this is a zero sum game, and you only get to be wrong once... just sayin...

I remember you posting about that, I hope you have now recovered. That barber chair I posted here had all the appearance of a sound tree but It had dry rotted on one side at the base. wbf had me questioning my memory, so I looked at it today - no bypassing cuts, it just broke. Maybe if I had cut faster, just maybe, I could have prevented it. Today's pictures will show why I leave the stump so quickly when cutting ash.

First ash today - felled about 30* off the lean to put it in the road where intended with no collateral damage. Despite small branches at the top which gave the appearance of a dying ash, the top folded back. All of that debris in the road is from the ash.
IMG_6620.JPG

Second ash of the day also felled about 30* off the lean to put it in the road with no collateral damage. It looked very similar to the first one (now underneath the second), but its top stayed in place though exploding upon impact. Yes, I ditched the 500i.
IMG_6621-001.JPG

Third ash of the day - clearly dead. It fell where intended, but what was left of the top folded back putting 2" limbs at the stump and just past the stump, right where I had been standing. Every limb in the foreground is off that tree.

IMG_6625.JPG


The third tree also had a little surprise. This 6" fork fell about thirty feet in front of the stump after I took the stump picture and had gather my stuff - easily a minute later.
IMG_6626-003.JPG

The third tree was not on my list for today. I just came upon it while scouting the road situation. It taught me another lesson. As an afterthought, I took the saw with me on my scout. I had my cap on and didn't realize that I wasn't wearing my hard hat until it was too late. Sure glad I had put some distance between me and the stump. I believe I will try to make it a habit from now on to leave the cap in the truck whenever falling is on the agenda.

Fourth ash of the day was also not on my list. It was about 1/3 mile down the road next to my log pile from the few trees I have skidded out so far. Nothing particularly instructive about the fourth ash. It also fell where intended. The person in the picture is one of my cutting buddies. The MAC 700 on the stump is mine that I used for fun to buck the main stem and the right fork. I used my MAC 800 to fall it. The 500i took the first three.
IMG_6643.JPG

My point in mentioning that they fell where intended is not to say I have any particular skill; it is to say that within limits dead ash can be steered which often lessens the hazards posed. Nor am I advising that you should pound wedges in a dead ash; you should simply work with the lean/load as much as you can. None of today's ash were wedged, only the third tree had the lean/load where I wanted.

Road conditions and my fat belly kept me from getting to more ash today.

Be safe out there.
R
 
Dead ash doesnt have the top weight. To help it fall.
Your correct on not letting the notch close. But dead ash doesnt have the strength to hold and rip upwards around here anymore.
Maybe it is just a matter of defining "dead ash", but I can't agree with your first general statement. The top is what allowed me to put each of the ash I cut today where I wanted. All four were dead trees despite the appearances of the first two.

Apparently unlike your area, here we have a few healthy looking ash, distressed ash, dying/almost dead ash, solid but dead ash, and standing rotten dead ash. Your area must be further through the life cycle than we are. At the rate we are going, I expect all our ash to be dead soon, and in a few years none will be standing.

IME the barber chair scale from greatest risk to lowest risk goes from the healthy looking to rotten dead. Those in the middle can be hard to judge.

Ron
 
After following this thread, it made me go out today into our back woods where I know we have a dying ash (emerald ash borer victim). It is right along our hiking path. This discussion made me go take it down asap. We took down a couple small cedars to ensure we had a clean drop zone. It was about 18" at the base.

We had my son and brother-in-law spotting while I cut - all of us wearing helmets. Simple open face cut, back cut, wedges and it was down. We had our eyes on one overhanging dead branch that dropped when the tree was on its way down - however, we were all safely back.

All bucked, split and stacked. All good. Thanks to this thread, we didn't delay and approached it more carefully.
 
I remember you posting about that, I hope you have now recovered. That barber chair I posted here had all the appearance of a sound tree but It had dry rotted on one side at the base. wbf had me questioning my memory, so I looked at it today - no bypassing cuts, it just broke. Maybe if I had cut faster, just maybe, I could have prevented it. Today's pictures will show why I leave the stump so quickly when cutting ash.

First ash today - felled about 30* off the lean to put it in the road where intended with no collateral damage. Despite small branches at the top which gave the appearance of a dying ash, the top folded back. All of that debris in the road is from the ash.
View attachment 958500

Second ash of the day also felled about 30* off the lean to put it in the road with no collateral damage. It looked very similar to the first one (now underneath the second), but its top stayed in place though exploding upon impact. Yes, I ditched the 500i.
View attachment 958504

Third ash of the day - clearly dead. It fell where intended, but what was left of the top folded back putting 2" limbs at the stump and just past the stump, right where I had been standing. Every limb in the foreground is off that tree.

View attachment 958511


The third tree also had a little surprise. This 6" fork fell about thirty feet in front of the stump after I took the stump picture and had gather my stuff - easily a minute later.
View attachment 958518

The third tree was not on my list for today. I just came upon it while scouting the road situation. It taught me another lesson. As an afterthought, I took the saw with me on my scout. I had my cap on and didn't realize that I wasn't wearing my hard hat until it was too late. Sure glad I had put some distance between me and the stump. I believe I will try to make it a habit from now on to leave the cap in the truck whenever falling is on the agenda.

Fourth ash of the day was also not on my list. It was about 1/3 mile down the road next to my log pile from the few trees I have skidded out so far. Nothing particularly instructive about the fourth ash. It also fell where intended. The person in the picture is one of my cutting buddies. The MAC 700 on the stump is mine that I used for fun to buck the main stem and the right fork. I used my MAC 800 to fall it. The 500i took the first three.
View attachment 958546

My point in mentioning that they fell where intended is not to say I have any particular skill; it is to say that within limits dead ash can be steered which often lessens the hazards posed. Nor am I advising that you should pound wedges in a dead ash; you should simply work with the lean/load as much as you can. None of today's ash were wedged, only the third tree had the lean/load where I wanted.

Road conditions and my fat belly kept me from getting to more ash today.

Be safe out there.
R
Looks good.

I was thinking the other day that the opening wasn't big enough and caused the B-Chair. Measure the wedge if you are not sure.
Did it start to go over and then stoped or did it split right away?
 
Stupid is as stupid Does.
Walking around woods with overhead branches attempting to kill or injure not good.

as far as using a strap or even a heavy duty chain to prevent a barberchair situation does Not guarantee your safety.
How much does the tree weight , how sound is the Wood, height of the tree, which direction is it leaning where are the limbs trying to pull the tree what’s the wind direction and intensity.
Why are you wanting to fell this tree convenience or necessity can you afford to leave this tree alone ?
How good are you At Plunge or bore cutting what’s your understanding of the compression and tension forces gravity is exerting on the stem.
If I HAD HAD TO FELL THIS TREE I would use a full V cut ( 45 degrees up and down ) on side the tree is to fall. 1/3 of the width of the Tree ( no Dutchman ) a plunge or bore cut leaving at least a three inch thick hinge.
Remove the bark from the rear of the tree ( directly opposite rear of the front cut ) expand the bore cut until you have enough holding wood at the trigger point .
Very tricky and not recommended for the newbie .
might be better to hire a professional
 
At the end of the day, this has been a good thread, with a lot of information... some good, some bad, lol. I know these EAB ashes are a huge problem through the Midwest, and I have limited experience with them, although they remind me of hypoxylon oaks and pecans down here in Texas... brittle, dead before their time, and full of widowmakers...
My best advice is to just know the limitations of your own experience, and don't let your ego get you hurt or worse. I was at the top of my game when I climbed the wrong damn tree, and it cost me 2 years of my life, and a career that I loved, and up until that morning it was just another tree...
 
Looks good.

I was thinking the other day that the opening wasn't big enough and caused the B-Chair. Measure the wedge if you are not sure.
Did it start to go over and then stoped or did it split right away?

From first movement to the chair was pretty quick, I was on the run so I only saw the tail end of it. Today's inspection didn't show anything to stall it or that the hinge had even flexed. The hinge was more than 3" thick. I noted today that it was straight across not tapered as I had mused that it might be. When I say first movement, I mean I heard a popping sound not that I actually saw anything move.

Ron
 
Without considerable lean or top weight many of the ones I cut won't go down with a 3" hinge. Maybe a matter of definition again. We have talked about many stages of the dead or dying ash in this thread. If I took the thread title to mean rotten ash, I would have little to post beyond the ash in the road as I do my best to avoid cutting rotten ash.

I enjoy cutting the other ones and though by no means am I a pro I wholeheartedly agree that ash isn't for the novice or for most occasional cutters.
Ron
 
My dead ash trees were cut by the town since they were on the edge of the road. These were big trees I have more to go.
 

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If you’re cutting the ash for firewood, how long do you have for storage before it turns to rotten crap with way less btu. I’m sure that has to do with damage done before cutting but it sounds like it gets worse with time just laying in the storage bin.
 

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