Self Loader - Need Opinions Please

[SliverPicker]

Northy got me thinking.

I had been in the process of purchasing a self loader until early this last week. I decided to pass on the deal due to several factors, but may be changing my mind.

Its a 2000 Mack with a 460 eTek motor. 339,099.9 miles on the clock. It got a reman engine directly from Mack in September 2011. Both rearends where made new one year ago. The rub is that I had my local hotshot mechanic look it over and he told me the cam bearings are on their way out. When the cam bearings go the Jake will not work properly and the oil pressure to the turbo gets too low and the truck eventually shells the turbo. When the turbo craps out the motor will run away and will turn in to a grenade if you are unable to get on the brakes and stall the engine. This motor, as it turns out, is famous for the cam bearings going bad. The mechanic said he can do the cam bearings, put in a new higher pressure oil pump and replace the crank bearings for $3000 in parts and $2000 in labor.

The other issue is that the truck is fairly small. The steer axle is only rated to 12,000 lbs. With just the loader on there the axle is near capacity before any logs are loaded.

I passed on the deal due to the bearing issue, the small axles and the fact that winter is fast approaching and I'm no truck driver. I'm not really excited about learning to drive a log truck with 7 months of winter directly ahead. Trucks are already chaining up to get loads out of the woods due to snow around here.

Anyway, I am starting to rethink buying the truck after all. I have two loads on the landing that have been there sine June 12th that I can't get hauled because I can't find a truck. Last year I had trouble finding a log truck, but this year it has been literally impossible. It has become obvious that without a truck I am out of business.

I have negotiated a price of $16,000 for the truck. This might be a deal that I can't afford to walk away from.

What do you guys think?

[/URL] 3151 by SliverPicker[/IMG]

 

[SliverPicker]

I used to be able to get photos on here, but not anymore. I give up.

Just click the "3151" to see the truck. Sorry for the incompetence.

 

[treeslayer2003]

well......300k is no miles for a truck, a new engine at 300 and it needs bearings? this all sounds fishy to me. i do not trust mechanics, they lie. self loaders are heavy, they not here cuz you can't tag for enough here to haul any thing.
i would say a full size self loader needs the heavy duty front end and super single front tires.

 

[nk14zp]

More important than miles is how many hours on the motor? Self loaders rack a lot of hours up for the miles drove. Front end should be ok. I call bs on the cam bearings.

 

[Skeans]

12k front end is pretty light for a self loader application, but I'd wonder if someone hasn't kept an eye on the oil. I'd be tempted to run a standard long logger and a shovel even in CO you will find a few for sale or a truck mount.

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[Skeans]

There was some stuff up around Laramie Wyoming that would probably be for sale by now, trucks and a truck mount Prentice if I remember correctly.

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[rocketnorton]

well......300k is no miles for a truck, a new engine at 300 and it needs bearings? this all sounds fishy to me. i do not trust mechanics, they lie. self loaders are heavy, they not here cuz you can't tag for enough here to haul any thing.
i would say a full size self loader needs the heavy duty front end and super single front tires.

More important than miles is how many hours on the motor? Self loaders rack a lot of hours up for the miles drove. Front end should be ok. I call bs on the cam bearings.

+1 on all ex the "front end should be ok" part. imo, light front is hiway stuff.

 

[bnmc98]

If you are not doing a lot of firewood, why not look at just getting a loader and hiring a straight truck. That way you don't have to drive, and if your trucker ever gets unreliable you can move on to a new one.
Just a thought.
A straight will have a larger payload too so you won't spend as much on the trucking. (you might already know that though)
I have seen many loaders for around the price you are looking to pay for the selfie. Also if you get a tracked loader, it can help you a lot with other landing and road issues.

 

[nk14zp]

+1 on all ex the "front end should be ok" part. imo, light front is hiway stuff.

Let me be more clear if it's the mack tapered king pin fa it should be fine. Besides most self loaders around here are lighter on the front when loaded.

 

[treeslayer2003]

i wanna know how he can say the cam bearings are wore without tearing it down...............sorry but it was buggin me.

 

[fordf150]

havent been around self loaders or Macks much but drove KW/Pete 6 axle dumps for 6 years. 12k front with 315 floats held up on other companys trucks just fine. 36 rears were a different story. 46 rears with quad locks is what i would look for(likely much higher price tag than your looking at). 36 rears have small axle shafts and drivelines that snap easily when taking off loaded when sunk in mud. I have seen more than my share of snapped axles and drive shafts on 36 rear trucks when subjected to off road environment. We ran 46 rears with chalmers solid suspension, 20 fronts, 3 12k steerables, 410 gears, 18spd direct, 425 floats on the steers. 300k miles of abuse and we never broke anything except a flywheel housing on the 500 cummins and a few sets of frame horns(KW had issues with the frames breaking at the front spring mount for a couple years). Not sure what the weight limits are there but here we were only aloud to gross 72k.

 

[fordf150]

i wanna know how he can say the cam bearings are wore without tearing it down...............sorry but it was buggin me.

I wondered the same thing but chalked it up to experience....see enough of em and you have a pretty good idea of what fails. I routinely diagnose low oil pressure/cam journals worn on 3v 5.4 motors and am correct 99% of the time once we get in there and tear them down.

 

[SliverPicker]

The mech. Says the cam bearings are going because the Jake is not working properly. It misses and kinda flutters. He has had to do cam bearings in 4 of theses engines in the past two years. Low oil pressure at the cam bearings makes the Jake miss and flutter. This particular mechanic is pretty a sharp chap.

 

[SliverPicker]

More important than miles is how many hours on the motor? Self loaders rack a lot of hours up for the miles drove. Front end should be ok. I call bs on the cam bearings.

20,000 hours on the chassis. Unknown on the current motor.

 

[SliverPicker]

There was some stuff up around Laramie Wyoming that would probably be for sale by now, trucks and a truck mount Prentice if I remember correctly.

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I live just 2 hours from Laramie.

 

[Skeans]

I live just 2 hours from Laramie.

Nice I spent almost a year there almost 10 years ago now. If I remember correctly they were off hwy 287 but I could be incorrect. What lengths are you guys running over there?

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[SliverPicker]

50 foot logs mostly plus or minus.

 

[northmanlogging]

A wise man once told me, if you wanna log, go logging, if you wanna truck buy a truck.

The biggest thing keeping me from going the self loader route is the cost to keep it legal, tonnage and insurance is right around 3k a month, every month. This doesn't include fuel tires or getting paid.

Most of the folks that run self loaders out here try to get 2 or 3 loads a day, 2 and they do ok 3 and they make a little money. So do some hard thinkin. You wanna drive truck or you wanna cut timber?

Also an alternative would be to get a medium duty truck, say a single axle dump truck or longer flat bed, an equipment trailer, cut short logs and haul those in, guy could easily load with a medium sized excavator, tonnage and insurance would be significantly less, and the truck could serve dual purpose of moving your own equipment.

 

[nk14zp]

This is what I meant in another thread. Stay small or get real big.

 

[SliverPicker]

I cannot find a truck to haul my logs. Period. I can't cut if I can't get it hauled. Without the truck I am out of business. With the truck I have to feed and water the danged thing. Truck insurance is $600 per month if I am hauling for someone else. If I haul exclusively for myself insurance is $110 per month. Registration is $2000 per year. The payment would be $547.00 per month for 2 years. Fuel? Tires? Repairs? PIA factor?

I have three jobs that I can't even start on due to a lack of trucking. I am stuck cutting for someone else on an hourly basis which ain't worth the rate. My skidder has been sitting idle since the end of August.

A smaller truck might not make sense either since distances are typically 1-2 hours one way to whatever mill. At rates of between $26 and $30 per ton for dried out dead pine I doubt I can haul enough wood on a smaller truck to make it pay.

Without a truck I am done, but I don't think I can afford the truck.

Fug!