Shopping to upgrade our OWB

[hickslawns]

Been running a Shaver 165 the last 3-4yrs. 1900sq ft house with pretty good insulation. We have two pumps and pipe runs currently. Both 105-110' in length. We only keep the shop around 50 and bump it up as needed. It is not well insulated but it has some. It is 24x34. Most likely next year will be adding an additional 30x50 building. My intentions are radiant heat in the concrete. Will see if the budget allows or not as we get closer. Might be forced to simply add another water to air exchanger in the new shop for budget reasons. Stinking building is going to cost enough as it is.

I am looking to upgrade the OWB first, then put up the building. Why the upgrade? I truthfully don't think I have a big enough unit as it is. I have made all the modifications I can to the Shaver and she is still a firewood eating pig. I was seriously looking into the Central Boilers but many reviews of rusting out units have me scared. Currently looking at Heatmore. Fortunately, we spent the money on the good pipe up front so this cost has already been absorbed. I still think I will be between $7000-10000 for a larger unit and that just plain hurts.

Is there any downside to oversizing these units? If I were to buy one designed to heat 8,000 or 10,000sq ft but only needed to heat 4216 sq ft (and hot water), will I be consuming more firewood? Logic says it should only consume at the rate which is required. With the Shaver gorging itself on firewood, I am a little nervous.

Next question: Am I being unrealistic thinking a different boiler will be more efficient? I mean, I get it. You need a certain number of BTUs, you have to supply a certain amount of firewood to do so. I simply feel I am losing a ton of heat and need to try something different.

Looking forward to your thoughts and input. I do realize these are loaded questions similar to Ford/Chevy/Dodge, or redhead/blonde/brunette. There will be much opinion involved. In regards to efficiency, hoping someone can offer some fact which tells me I am thinking in the right direction.

 

[stratton]

Hicks you need the 250 or 290..... I think your unit is way no small for your application.I currently run a indoor D.S. Aquatherm 3200.. 160,000 btu house is only 2000 sqft. 8 hr loads 7cuft firebox...... Your sqftige is huge and the shaver model looks to be there smallest unit.Keep us posted. Luke

 

[brenndatomu]

I have made all the modifications I can to the Shaver and she is still a firewood eating pig. I was seriously looking into the Central Boiler

Nature of the beast, CB too.

If I were to buy one designed to heat 8,000 or 10,000sq ft but only needed to heat 4216 sq ft (and hot water), will I be consuming more firewood?

Probably some...

Am I being unrealistic thinking a different boiler will be more efficient?

Unless you go to a gasifier boiler, yes.
But as stratton has said, your boiler is too small as is so, gotta do what you gotta do

 

[H-Ranch]

Most likely next year will be adding an additional 30x50 building. My intentions are radiant heat in the concrete. Will see if the budget allows or not as we get closer. Might be forced to simply add another water to air exchanger in the new shop for budget reasons. Stinking building is going to cost enough as it is.

If you are even thinking of heating the floor in the future I would suggest you at least squeeze that part into the budget when you pour the concrete. You only get to decide that once - it's kinda hard to put the PEX in the floor after the fact.

 

[NSMaple1]

Next question: Am I being unrealistic thinking a different boiler will be more efficient? I mean, I get it. You need a certain number of BTUs, you have to supply a certain amount of firewood to do so. I simply feel I am losing a ton of heat and need to try something different.

Not being unrealistic at all.

I would seriously consider getting a new boiler in either your existing outbuilding, or making room for it in the one you'll be building. Even if you have to partition it off in it's own space (not sure what insurance would require in your situation). Ideally your wood would be in with it, but you could put it in an attached lean-to type structure or something like that.

In that situation, you could use an indoor boiler. Then all the standby heat losses will go into a structure you'd be heating anyway. Ideally it would be hooked to some storage - that could be in your house maybe. If you haven't yet or don't know about them - check out Garn boilers. Gasification & storage all in one unit, and they really get the heat out of the wood and into the water. Or a big Wood Gun, or maybe an Econoburn both of which don't 'need' storage. All are gasifiers that have been around a while and are proven.

The only catch, if you want to call it that, is they require dry wood. The Wood Gun might be the most forgiving in that respect - but the gain is that with dry wood, all of it gets turned into heat and none goes up your stack in smoke or sticks there in creosote form.

I knew nothing about gasification until 4-5 years ago - but some glad I found out about it and would never go back to a non-gassing boiler.

 

[cantoo]

There are lots of ways to save money and there are lots of ways to waste money.
Upgrade your insulation and vapor barrier. .
Wear a sweater?
Keep doors shut as much as you can.
Cut wood sooner and dry longer. Also keep the wood dry.
Turn the heat or boiler temp down a bit when you aren't going to be there.

 

[morewood]

A lot of common sense stuff here. The only thing I can address is the CB. My father has had one for approx. 20 years, an older side draft unit. I have a newer classic (10 yr. old). I haven't seen any rusting issues. Will there be some rust, obviously. Keep it out of the dirt and in the sunlight to help the outer portions of the stove. Cover the chimney when not in use. That pretty much covers what we do with no issues.

Shea

PS- All of them will eat wood, just more of it when you heat at a higher temp or larger area.

 

[hickslawns]

Thanks for the input. 100% seasoned and dry wood is simply not an option for me at times. I am crazy busy. 3 kids in activities and self employed in a demanding business. We push a lot of snow. When the ground is frozen, we are often times working. When it isn't snowing, it is tough to get into the woods because the ground isn't too muddy. In the summer, we are busy. Sometimes I simply am forced to burn some green wood. Plenty of dead and fallen ash trees in our area. This is nearly seasoned when it is cut up and hauled out.

From what I am reading. . . .whether we keep our unit (undersized and eating too much wood), or upgrade to a larger unit. . . .There aren't a lot of ways to get around wood consumption unless I go with a gasification unit. Guess my achievement in upgrading would be a unit which is capable of keeping up, and "maybe" burn a little less wood simply because we don't have the damper opened up and constantly working to maintain temp. I view this like fuel mileage. If it is larger and I set the cruise control at 55mph on a bigger engine it doesn't work as hard and burns less fuel. If I have a smaller engine with cruise on at 55mph, it keeps kicking down out of overdrive thus burning more fuel. Just need to keep my foot out of the larger engine or it WILL consume as much fuel or possibly more. Maybe a bad comparison. Just how I look at it.

I would seriously consider getting a new boiler in either your existing outbuilding, or making room for it in the one you'll be building. Even if you have to partition it off in it's own space (not sure what insurance would require in your situation). Ideally your wood would be in with it, but you could put it in an attached lean-to type structure or something like that.

I like your idea. My insurance man said anything burning wood inside a structure is a NO GO for us. I did put some fence up around our current boiler. Seems to help a bit. A lean-to or something to keep out of the weather is something I have been considering. Those 20' shipping containers are what I am considering. Roughly $2000 and weather tight.

 

[hickslawns]

There are lots of ways to save money and there are lots of ways to waste money.
Upgrade your insulation and vapor barrier. .
Wear a sweater?
Keep doors shut as much as you can.
Cut wood sooner and dry longer. Also keep the wood dry.
Turn the heat or boiler temp down a bit when you aren't going to be there.

Great suggestions. Sweater? Works for me. Wife is pale, redheaded, and always cold. Not worth the argument. Guess the thermostat will stay at 70. lol
Door shut? Dang kids. Worse in summer than winter, but common sense advice. I agree.
More seasoned/drier wood- Always the goal, not always the reality.
Turn water temp down- I do adjust seasonally. In March or October when temps aren't frigid, my water temperature is not as hot.

Great great great suggestions. I agree with them all. I try to live by these as well. They don't always work out, but for the most part I am practicing these methods. Thank you for the thoughts!

 

[cantoo]

hickslawn, don't be afraid of buying a unit that is too big. Just use common sense when you put wood in it, treat it the same as an indoor fireplace or stove. Load for the heat demand. I have access to lots of "free" wood but I still bring as many pallets home from work as I can, when I have a big heat demand I throw a pile of dry pallet wood in it.
Spend some research on the gassers, I hear the wood HAS to be DRY.