Should I buy an OWB or not?

[ktm rider]

KTM Rider, what kind of OWB did you own?

It was a Pacific Western ( Cold Killer model) it was a wood only. if i would have bought a wood/coal combo I probably would have kept it. Plus my wife HATED going outside in the cold to tend the fire when I was at work.

I sold it and bought an AHS Multi Fuel indoor boiler I get 16-20 hr burn times now, ( depending on the weather ) and it is inside a nice cozy garage

 

[rob206]

:agree2:
I strongly agree.

OWB's almost require an obsession for gathering wood.

:agree2:

 

[rob206]

Would just like to add.... a year before I bought my boiler, I bought a decent saw from a local shop. The Jred 2145 was my first saw, not big or pro model type, but dependable. I bought it because I wanted a good saw and dealer support. Next thing I did was get a permit to cut on state land here in Michigan, 5 cords cost me $20 for the permit and whatever I spent in gas. I didn't realize at the time that you could cut on federal land too with a permit, so I only cut 5 cords of hardwood that year. I also have 5 acres of mostly pine and so I also cut up down-n-dead stuff. The reason I bought the saw and the firewood permit was to see if it would be feasible for me to cut the volume of wood needed to fuel an outdoor boiler. Where I live 5cords won't get you through the winter, but when I learned I could also cut on federal land I knew I could handle the wood requirements for an owb. As it turns out, I love cutting wood and had never done so before the spring of '06, so I guess this is just a wordy way of saying to make sure you can acquire all of the wood you will need. If you have to buy most or all of it, an owb might not be a good idea.

 

[LadyToysDream]

I am having a REALLY hard time wrapping my brain around this statement. Electric bills in winter expected to be around $800/month. from the first post in this thread. What are you thinking summer electric bills to be ?


Our OWB was almost $10,000 . It will take awhile for us to get our payback, but I refuse to be held hostage by the propane company and the electric company.
House is 1248 sq ft. Past history was 500 gallons ( $ 2.45 gallon last delivery )of propane a year. Last year at this time, electric cost us $ 161 a month. This current electric bill was $ 106. for the month. I fiqure our wood bill will be about $ 600 a year. We bought a tri axle load of logs, recently, and hubby did the cutting and spilting. Future propane use will be about 20 gallons a yr for our cookstove.

 

[windthrown]

Great site here, lots of info. It seems that many are fans of the outside wood burning furnaces. I cannot decide if this is right for me. I just bought a 1600 sqft home on 5 acres in Maryland. The house has no AC, electric baseboard heat and hot water heater. Electric bills in winter expected to be around $800/month. I am going to have ac installed with the ducts running in the attic. I was then going to instal a central boiler and put the heat exchanger in the ac ductwork....that is until I discovered here that the cost of the central boiler would be about $10k. I would think an oil furace would cost about $3k to install with oil for the entire winter costing about $800. I really do like the idea though of free heat and being somewhat off the grid. Any of you faced a similar dilema? Is it worth the extra cost of the OWB??

If you are expecting an $800 a month electric heating bill, there is no way that your fuel oil bill is only going to be $800 for the entire heating season. Something is wrong in the math there someplace.

Re-figure the heating oil expected use: If your house heating is $800 a month for electric heating, at say, a cheap rate of 10 cents a kWhr, that is 8kkWhr per month in energy (100% efficiency). 1 KWH = 3,413 BTUs, so your house uses 27.3kk BTUs per month in winter heating. Heating oil has 140,000 BTUs/Gal, and with a high efficiency of say, 85%, your heater will provide 119,000 BTU per gallon of oil. So that translates to 230 gallons of oil per month. At $2 a gallon, 230 gallons of oil per month is $460. Which sounds about right comparing oil cost vs electric rates. Even if your electricity is 20 cents a KWhr, your heating oil will be $230 a month. But factor in that oil is now half what it was this summer, you are back to $460 a month again if it returns to $4 a gallon. Or $920 if your are paying 10 cents a kWhr.

 

[windthrown]

Lots of noise here about high heating bills, but that is the case in may places. In New England, I know people that pay well over $1,000 a month to heat their houses. Even in cheap cheap cheap 7 cents a kWhr Oregon, we paid $300 a month to heat the ex's house where winters are far milder. We installed an OWB there, as she has all the wood she can burn in 12 lifetimes there for free. That unit cost $8k to install. The payback when I installed it was figured at 5 years. Now the break even is down to 4 years, as the winters here have been unusually colder than average in the past 4 years, and the price of electricity has gone up about 20% since the install.

As for getting an OWB, they are not for the romantically inclined. But neither are indoor stoves. Both require a lot of wook hauling wood around and feeding the fire. A stove requires the right setup in the house. Otherwise you heat one room and the rest of the house is freezing, like the house I live in now. I liked having an OWB. Even whole-house radiant heating, easy to feed and maintain, simple to operate, and reliable. Contrary to all the negative press about them, they simply do not smoke that much. And the wood stays outside, with the fire. After we installed the OWB at the ex's, we had no need or desire for a fire in the house any more. We used it when the power went out, and that was about it. We also kept the house wearmer than we did when the electric boiler was in use, so the confort level was greatly improved there in winter.

 

[Jeske 962]

ktm rider

KTM Rider, what kind of OWB did you own?

what model ktm do you ride, off topic but had a 250sx to moto with now went 4 stroke.

 

[Den69RS96]

I live in New England and have oil furnance. Actually its a hydro air system similiar to a heater core in a car. I use about 600-650 gallons of oil a year to heat a 2000 sq foot two story colonial built in 2005. My utility bill averages around 100 a month. Oil prices are low right now, but if I calculate the price per gallon at 2.79 x 650 = 1813.50. Figure in about 1200 for electric for the year and its about 3gs to heat and light my house for the year or about 250 a month. You should definitely get rid of electric heat if it cost you $800 a month. Adding more insulation and new windows and doors would probably be more of a benefit than an Wood burning furnance.

 

[flotek]

the outdoor wood boilers will make you a slave to it ..a quality indoor wood addon furnace is the way to go .my oil bill to heat a 2,000 sq foot split level house in NW pennsylvania was around 2,500 each winter .this year i got an Englander addon furnace tied into my ducting .i purchased it for less than 1,400 the stainless pipe was around 800 ,the house is now around 7-10 degrees warmer than it ever was and the investment paid for itself the very first year . i have used not one drop of natural gas ,propane or fuel oil ,my electric bill only went up around 9 bucks a month for the squirrel cage blower unit,cutting splitting and stacking wood can be hardwork and cna take some time getting used to ...but in a time in history of great economic uncertainty its a gaurenteed investment that will richly rewards those who arent afraid to work everytime

 

[Circle B MN]

I have a CB5036 heating perhaps 1800 sq ft. Got it last summer. Been running since September. Load it once a day, half full (full stack in the front of the box). It has used less wood than I expected it to, with zero issues to speak of. On warmer days I only have to add a couple of sticks.

I would certainly purchase another were it needed. I get my wood for free off my property and wanted ads in the paper. Cut during the warm months when there is less "pressure" on firewood. One of the best purchases I have ever made.

 

[joeyb1]

Wow, thanks everyone for the responses. As far as an indoor stove goes....I'm not sure. The chimney is accessible from the basement, but upstairs it is between two bedrooms. I suppose I could put a stove in the living room and just run a stainless chimney up through the ceiling and roof...but then how to get heat through the rest of the house?? Also, I am wondering about the debris created from bark in the house and ash from the stove?? A buddy of mine has done this for a couple of years with success, but he hates the mess.

As far as the $800 is concerned... BGE is expensive in Maryland and electric baseboard heat uses a lot of kw/h. They have a website where you can calculate costs. Just for heat they tell me it's going to cost $5800 per year. Everyone I know around here with electric heat has a crazy bill. As a comparison I used to live in a 1910 bungalow with a 1980 natural gas fired boiler in a steam radiator system. As ancient as the house and system was...I only paid $250 a month to keep the house at 65. Granted it's probably more expensive know two years later, but still cheaper than electric baseboards or electric forced air.

The add-on stoves seem great, but judging from BTU output I don't think one would be enough by itself..or am I wrong here.

As for firewood...I will have to clean up fallen trees and debris anyway. I will be buying a Husqvarna 346xp and because of my job I have access to splitters, chippers, large dump trailers...etc...and I already have the pickup truck. Being an urbanite I have only done limited work with firewood..but I'm thinking with the fallen wood that's already there, the few trees that have to come down because of disease, and craigslist...I can knock out my firewood needs for the year in a few weekends. Or maybe I am totally off base here??

 

[Jkebxjunke]

you say you are going to put in central ac... here's a thought... a ground source (geothermal) heat pump.. you get ac and heat too.. and then put in a pellet stove... run the pellet stove when it is really cold... or to supplement your heat pump..
or use a wood stove in the basement.. just a thought
oh and are they not giving all kinds of tax rebates on geothermal heat pumps?

 

[johnnylabguy]

I'm thinking with the fallen wood that's already there, the few trees that have to come down because of disease, and craigslist...I can knock out my firewood needs for the year in a few weekends. Or maybe I am totally off base here??[/QUOTE]

ACCESS TO WOOD.

That's one thing that I don't think has been hit on enough here. You're going to be using A LOT of wood with an outdoor woodburner. I would have one if I had a constant reliable wood source. You have to figure 10-15(guesstimating here) cords of wood at least EVERY year. I have a friend that sells Central Boilers and he says that is the thing most people overlook when considering a purchase. They don't have access to large amounts of free wood. And even he admits OWB's are no good if you have to pay for wood.

Even if you enjoy the work, have the time, and have the equipment, your still not going to save much money if you have to buy firewood in the end.

If you haven't done alot of firewood processing and burning I think you might be smart with an add-on wood furnace or stove first. They are inexpensive comparibly and use less wood. If you enjoy the process enough(sounds like you will) and have good access spring for the OWB in a few years. An OWB is an expensive proposition without much woodburning experience and a large source of free wood. Good luck in whatever you choose and welcome to the site!

 

[urhstry]

Sounds to me like a wood/coal insert or freestanding burner would work out well for you. If you run out of wood, you have the coal option. The larger models are putting out over 100,000 BTU. A lot cheaper than electric.

 

[flotek]

well dont go by the btu rating on the indoor furnaces ,go by user reviews ,most are way underrated in this area and larger efficinet units can heat you out of house and home ,its nothing for my house to be in the 80's on a frigid january day and have the windows open

 

[Dalmatian90]

I am having a REALLY hard time wrapping my brain around this statement. Electric bills in winter expected to be around $800/month

A lot of you just have no conception how much we take it up the ass in many of the northeastern states.

In Connecticut we have a "deregulated" electric system that has a crap load of environmental and aesthtic regulations dumped on on it.

What would you like?

That the only new power plants allowed are natural gas powered ones -- and we don't have enough pipeline capacity in winter to supply gas for both electricity and home heating oil, and no state will approve new LNG terminals or pipelines?

That in Connecticut our coal fired plants import their coal from Indonesia (you know, that country between Australia and Vietnam, somewhere west of the Philipines) because it burns cleaner then coal mined in the U.S.?

That the southwestern part of the state didn't like the look of high tension lines, so when one was desperately needed since they couldn't build a new power plant there, the state agreed to charge all ratepayers statewide to install UNDERGROUND a frigging 60 mile long 345kV transmission line?

It's as expensive for electricity here as in Hawaii for goodness sake.

Bottom line:
I live alone in 600 s.f. house.

February's bill was 527kWh for $110.58. My only electric pig is the sump pump for the basement till I can get an mini-excavator in and replace 50 year old drain pipes that have collapsed.

The *average* residential customer is 700kWh, so that's up around $150 and I bet that includes a lot of apartment dwellers and people with natural gas stoves. I can't imagine a typical family, typical single family home, electric dryer & stove being under $200.

 

[AKDoug]

They don't have access to large amounts of free wood. And even he admits OWB's are no good if you have to pay for wood.

That all depends on your local market. Up here heating fuel is at $2.50 a gallon, but it was up to $4.25 last winter. I pay $1100 for a log truck (10 cords) of birch delivered. My 10,000 sf building burned 3300 gallons of heatng fuel last year. This year I will burn 27 cords of birch to heat it with a Woodmaster 5500. Generally we consider a cord of wood to equal 100 gallons of heating fuel and I bettered that by a bit. I hauled my own 30 cords this year and I already have enough logs (felled 2 yrs ago) at the landing for next year's 30 cords. After that I have to buy wood, but I'm not worried. $3300 for a winter's worth of logs vs. $8250 of heating fuel still makes it more than worth it.

 

[mga]

Great site here, lots of info. It seems that many are fans of the outside wood burning furnaces. I cannot decide if this is right for me. I just bought a 1600 sqft home on 5 acres in Maryland. The house has no AC, electric baseboard heat and hot water heater. Electric bills in winter expected to be around $800/month. I am going to have ac installed with the ducts running in the attic. I was then going to instal a central boiler and put the heat exchanger in the ac ductwork....that is until I discovered here that the cost of the central boiler would be about $10k. I would think an oil furace would cost about $3k to install with oil for the entire winter costing about $800. I really do like the idea though of free heat and being somewhat off the grid. Any of you faced a similar dilema? Is it worth the extra cost of the OWB??

better check with your state first. i believe maryland has already adopted a ban on installing them:

Oddly enough, it has been legal to sell outdoor boilers in Maryland, but not to have them on one’s property. Enforcement has been limited to responding to complaints.

source:

http://www.freewebs.com/freedomofair/news2008.htm

 

[Randy88]

I own a wood doctor for about four years now and love it, we burn wood year round for heating water in the summer along with heating the house in the winter so mine has never gone out. If your gonna own any kind of wood burner you'd better love firewood, I've had in house wood burners and would never have one again, keep the mess outside. We do landclearing and have unlimited access to wood literally, our motto is " firewood from the best torch the rest " and bring it in by the semi load to be cut and split, we heat an old two story hotel of a house that the wind wistles through. We are wanting to build a new house so I'm not spending money on it but instead back up to the owb and toss in another pickup load of wood and crank up the thermostat so I'm comfortable I guess what goes around comes around, 80 years ago everyone burned wood and then went away from it and now their all back doing it again, maybe in the next 20 years people will get all the fenclines cleaned off again for firewood and the neglected timbers, hollows and draws cleaned up again as well. They have sold OWB's like hot cakes around me and I'm told theres a 6 month wait to get one and have it installed, one supplier had 72 of them sold that he was waiting to get and selling more every day, don't know if it dropped off due to cheaper fuel or not but holy cow thats the business to be in.

 

[joeyb1]

better check with your state first. i believe maryland has already adopted a ban on installing them:
source:

http://www.freewebs.com/freedomofair/news2008.htm

It appears they are illegal in Maryland to operate, but still legal to buy. I never would have guessed that heating your home in a clean and safe way would be illegal. I guess I will have to explore one of the alternatives mentioned in this thread. Thanks again.