soft groundsaw option for new groundies

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imagineero

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Location
blue mountains australia
My Situation
I run a small time tree business, and I don't really want it to grow any bigger. I get one or two jobs a week that are decent sized, and a few trim jobs. I also sub out to other tree companies, sometimes as a driver, sometimes as a groundie, sometimes as a climber. In busy times I might work 6 or even 7 days a week, but I guess I average 3 or 4 over the year. Because of this I can't hire a full time groundie, but on most of my removals I need 2 or 3 guys.

Nearly all of my work is technical removals, in the city. The 'yards' that these trees grow in are sometimes only as big as a shipping container. Sometimes the houses are only as big as a shipping container! Access is severely limited, and the trees can get pretty big. If you're lucky you get a 3 foot wide access path along the side of the house. I can't remember the last time I had enough yard space to drop a tree straight on the ground. I do removals sometimes with no access, and we take the tree out through the house. Landing zone is minor or non existant with pot plants, roof tops, fences and delicate paving. A lot of it is lowered, or pieced out and dropped onto a pile of brush.

The Problem

Taking the tree out to the chipper in the street is very labour intensive, especially if its far up the back and the path is narrow. That's a lot of trips. Because I can't get regular ground crew I'm often stuck with guys who can't run a saw. I try to make all my cuts up in the tree so it hits the ground ready to come out in segments that can be easily dragged and chipped, but you can't always do it exactly how you want to. You can trust most guys to hold a rope, but not to run a saw.

I used to try giving them a handsaw, but some guys even hurt themselves with that. I'll confess to slicing myself up a few times in the first few weeks that I got my first silky. After a guy wrecked a nice sugoi by running it in the dirt and over some rocks I felt hesitant to even do this. But I need a way for guys to make the odd cut now and then.... not on every drop, I can do 90% of it up in the tree, but they might need to slice it up a little.

The Solution
Cordless reciprocating saw. Before you laugh, have a think about it for a minute. No electricity, no fuel, and due to the shape of the tool you need to keep both hands on it so it's difficult to cut yourself. No 'run on' of the blade when you let go of the trigger. The blades only cost a few bucks. It's so quiet that they can hear me scream "no, don't cut it there... thats small enough!"

I use a dewalt DC385, but only because I happen to have one. If i had to buy it, I dont think I would. The cheaper cordless saws arent going to do anything, and you dont want to go corded. If you already have a top shelf cordless system of tools with batteries and chargers, then adding a recip saw will likely cost you less than a C note, and you'll find lots of uses for it. If you have to buy from scratch you might want to think about it, unless you were looking for an excuse to get yourself a really good cordless drill or impact driver to make stripping down your chipper easy. I have 3 batteries, but I've never used more than 1 in a day. Bear in mind that I'm doing most of the cutting up in the tree still though, and bigger stuff all gets done by chainsaw.

The Reality

I've done this on the last few jobs I've run. It went surprisingly well. The recip saw goes through stuff up to 6" pretty easy. Beyond that, you really need a chainsaw. On small stuff (under 2") you want a 6TPI blade. Anything over that go with 3TPI for speed. Use the wood only blades, avoid the combination ones made for wood with nails; they just aren't aggressive enough.

Besides the obvious safety benefits, I find the recip saw is a really good way to sus out guys who say they know what they are doing with a saw. All the same principles of tension and compression apply as when using a chainsaw, and location of cut etc. Guys who know what they are doing show it real fast - they dont get the saw bound up, dont snap the blade or bury it in the dirt, make cuts in the right places, let the saw do the work instead if forcing it etc. In the same sense, a recip saw is almost good training wheels for someone hoping to use a chainsaw in future (at least for limbing work) and gives them a good understanding of how wood will react to being cut.

I'm going to keep trialling this and see how it goes but it looks pretty good so far. Will keep you all updated.

Shaun
 
Interesting idea. Another thought... sign up with a temp agency. When you get a good worker, just ask for the same one back again next time you need help.
 
Train one groundy, if they guys your hiring are to stupid to be able to use so much as a silky, what kind a sling is your butt going to be in if your injured up in a tree or if one of them gets badly hurt? At the best you will kill any chance you have of building a successful business, and those you sub to wont want to touch you.

I think you need to rethink how your approaching jobs.

If you havent got enough work to go full time yourself, hiring monkeys to get the few jobs you have got done quicker isnt a good strategy. Cut back on the subbing as in the long term your going to get away from it anyhow.

Maybe look at doing the job with you and one other, your going to have to get in and out of the tree alot more to help drag but it will mean you will build a more productive team overall, jobs are going to take longer, but your going to cut back on your risks and will probably be able to train the other guy to climb to.
 
Shaun, I've been in the same situation you are, and still am all the time. I was just given some great advice from a big company owner who is my mentor. I was asking him all about training, and he tells me that learning how to execute good effective training is also something you should work toward. Its a learned skill/technique, just like anything else. So I just purchased the 5 dvd sets, and so on, but am also focussing more on the right ways to get guys to learn.. and there are a lot of factors involved.. but all I can say right this moment is that teaching a guy to run a small lightweight saw safely is not as hard or scarey as u might think it would be for them. You just HAVE TO punctuate the proper rules/do's & don'ts, say them properly, over and over, demonstrate, say it again. not too wordy, but specific things you must accentuate and tell them. Its like teaching someone to ride a bike. they can learn in one day.

Anyway, i used to be the same as you. I hated the worry or risk of having a newbie greenhorn running one of my saws on the ground.. but now i am learning how to teach them to run it the way I think they should, and i think its safe, as long as they know the proper rules!!

Good luck!

Greenstar (ben)
 
I am no pro, but it seems like a great solution.

Let me make a suggestion, you mention about blades used....

I use this one (see pics below) for trimming small branches @ home and it works great. Might be worth looking for...I think skill makes the blades, but I am sure other manufacturers make them too......

IMG_20110703_230528.jpg

IMG_20110703_230519.jpg


Good luck
 
Some other options you may want to consider:

we're a fairly big operation and only the top climbers get silky's, everyone else gets coronas. At less than half the price you may want to consider coronas or even fiskars. The groundie doesn't need a great saw.

Team up with another independent like you. You each chase your own work, but sub to each other as groundies. You would have to work out some kind of arrangement to keep from bidding on the same jobs, but that's pretty easy.

I like the idea of cordless sawzall. I've used for root pruning and for cutting out fence panels, to make removals faster.

For those fences where the people have used the Home Depot panels, they quickly come out by running the sawzall down the post and cutting the nails. The panel comes out, do the work and then is easily nailed back into place.
 
lots of good advice and friendly suggestions, thanks guys... but we each have our own situation. Hiring people in Aus has its own requirements, and I'm not ready to step up to the plate and become an company or take on full time staff. I'm quite happy as a sole trader, it keeps my costs and responsibilities down.

I do have friends who are tree workers and are competent as groundies or climbers, but the going rate for a casual groundie in aus is $250/day, and $500~$550 for a climber. I hire casual labour at the rate of $120/day, and they come and go. I can't guarantee work, but I dont have to. I only hire people the day before a job, and most only work with me for one or two days as they are travellers passing through. The time I get to train them is about 10 minutes before I get up the tree... and in that time I try to tell them (sometimes with limited English abilities) how to drag, and how to make a stack that will go through the chipper. A few safety instructions on not being around the tree while a saw is running, don't try to pickup something that is too heavy etc. At this rate, what you get is labour only.

On bigger jobs other guys do sub for me, and I sub for them. But I've got to make a dollar too, and on small jobs there's no margin. Having a safe saw I can give to a guy on day 1 who is only working for one day helps my situation because it means I don't have to do all the work in the tree, or get up and down like a yo yo. I piece out 95% of it from the tree as it will go through the chipper, but now I can get the other few percent done safely.

Good idea on the root pruning! Wonder if there's a blade that does OK in the dirt. Cheaper than carbide chain....

Shaun
 

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