(split off) Climbing around power

[clearance]

You guys still don't get it. A steelcore lanyard never touches the line, never violates limits of approach, because it is not that long. I'll say it again-if it is not a dielectrically tested piece of equipment with a valid test sticker on it then it is conductive, no exceptions ever. If you think otherwise you are deluding yourselves, with possibly fatal consequences. Anyways, as a C.U.A. I am one safety level below a lineman. Linemen really are the authority about power, ask one of them about it.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I think the reason for no steel core is that in the case of secondary contact it is more likely to bring you into the circuit

 

[clearance]

J.P.S.-please explain what you are talking about. Secondary contact, do you mean contact with the low voltage lines, known as secondarys, like the 240volt triplex that goes to a residence? Or are you talking about some thing else, there is no other secondary contact that matters because as Masterblaster so eloquently put it "When yur bit, yur bit"

 

[okietreedude1]

Clear,

So your telling me that you NEVER are within 2.x feet of a primary line? And also if you have a CUA trainee that cant get w/n 10' they can still climb steel core?

Here (were I work) it is considered potentially energized if at any time, any part of the tree can violate the clearance zone (2.x' or 10'). That means the tree may be 50' from the line and a limb being trimmed out could pass into that zone, it requires a qualifed line clearance tree trimmer. And just how do WE determine qualification??? Good question. I dont have any certificate, formal training, etc. but I do line clearance. What I do have is RESPECT for the lines and the hazard they pose.

I think what most here are saying is thier opinion that a steel core, regardless of the user being a cua or not, should not be used in line clearance trimming. apparantly you have been trained otherwise and its okay for your power authority for them to allow it. I personlly dont think any lineman would recommend it.

 

[glens]

I have no training in line clearance, but have some experience doing tree work and quite a fair amount of experience working with electricity of varying voltage levels.  In my mind I cannot envision any reasonable situation where the presence or absence of a steel core in a flipline/lanyard would result in more or less danger when in a tree very near power lines.

The exception, so far as I can envision it, might be the case where a worker was near enough to the line that he/she could swing the lanyard, or let it dangle, into the line.  But that's taboo in and of itself anyway, right?

 

[clearance]

David-thats correct, never closer than 3ft to even the lowest voltage high voltage line. You state that any tree that could pass into the zone even if it is 50ft away requires a qualified line clearance tree trimmer. You go on to say that you have no certificate, no formal training etc. but you do line clearance. Anyone who is unqualified and untrained and uncertified caught doing that kind of work here would net the company they were working for a healthy fine. You have respect for the power, thats good, but what do you really know about how to work safely around it? In yours and others opinion here steelcores are bad, bad but you have no training, how can you be so sure they are bad if you are not violating your limits? I''ll say it again, you cannot violate your limits for yourself or conductive equipment you are using ever. You also cannot violate your limits for the dielectrically tested equipment you are using ever. But if you do violate, and say for example touch the line with your tested pole pruner you will be o.k. because its tested. You violate and touch the line with a branch, your hand, saw and yes even your lanyard, steel or not, then you are energized. Again, for feks sake, if it is not dielectrically tested and approved with a valid test sticker, IT IS CONDUCTIVE!! This is what I learned when I was trained, not my opinion, but fact, taught to me by lineman who are older and wiser than me. My ms200 hanging of my ass is as close to the line as the end of my steelcore, its conductive and so what. And some people here advocate chucking a throwline above the primary so they can spurless climb, a sure way to violate your limits. Don't violate your limits! The reason I keep it up here is because one of you guys, who is probably a better climber and a treecare expert than me might get zapped because they know it all. Why can't you guys accept that c.u.a.s have been climbing with steelcores day in day out for years and years without steelcores causing a fatality or an injury? At least some of you same people put forth valid arguements about one handing saws, valid cause you all use saws and have direct, extensive knowledge about using them. Finally, here is something you will not believe, lineman working on very high voltage transmission lines and I do mean on those lines, they wear steel underwear. No b.s.

 

[clearance]

Thanks Glens

 

[Big A]

what a great discussion!! Well reasoned discussion at its best. I can't remember all the regs we had over here in the uk on line clearance but I know that steel core flips are a definite no-no, as are throw lines. Interested to see that even the dielectric tested poles shouldn't enter the safety zone as common practice here is to use poles (tested fibre glass) to push the power line out of the way. Had to have minimum of three 1.1 metre poles joined for safety sake, I preferred 4 or more any way. This was working on 11kv and 33kv. The rules and regs may be different nowadays, I'm not sure.

 

[Ross Turner]

Steel core flip lines can be used only on a cat 3 tree(A tree that if pruned or felled would not breach live zone).The minmum is still 3 poles on 11kV,Some Recs allow you to use a minimum of 4 poles on 33kV but one has to be filled with epoxy resin.
One way we got around getting up trees with out using spikes was to use the poles to place your rope into the tree.

 

[Big A]

When I did the substation entry permit course I was intrigued to see a gang turn up for the course with aluminium ladder on the truck. the instructor asked what were they doing at the moment and the reply was line clearance. He asked why they had a metal ladder with them and they replied that thieir wooden one had been condemned the night before and this was the only other one they had! He told them to go and buy another wooden one before they did any more line clearance, I wonder now if they bothered. If this is the mentality of some people no wonder we have so much legislation to contend with!

 

[topnotchtree]

I have seen climbers make a pruner clip above them and seen the freefalling clip make a few bad bounces and come to rest with one end on the primary and the other end resting on the climbers lanyard. That is the reason I will not use a steelcore strap. Not because I am worried about it making a direct contact with a conductor, but possible an indirect contact thru a limb. As for using hooks on trims... Clearance, you come across as you wear them on every trim, no matter how big or small the tree. You say line clearance guys need to wear them. I'm not saying I never wear them, but only when I feel I need them. We usually enter the tree from a ladder. Then we climb using the tree limbs, to get to tie in. As an apprentice I was tought to use my arms, legs, hands, feet, elbows, knees, chin, fingernails, teeth, or whatever it took to get up the tree. If there is nothing to grab onto, then you set your climbing line above you with a pole pruner, and bodythrust up till you reach limbs to climb with. Sometimes you may need to do this a couple of times to get to where you need to be. It will take time and practice to god good and efficient. But, when you get good at climbing without hooks, think of how much better you will be when you need to strap them on.

 

[clearance]

Topnotch-sounds like you had it rough as an apprentice man. Whatever it it took huh. I was taught to throw my lanyard around the tree and walk up it. I appreciate the advice from you and others here but you will understand the following better than most cause you do line clearance. Trees that have to worked on because they are in conflict with a line are very different from trees in a park or private residence. These trees will be topped, side limbed or have other nasty things done to them, because the line comes first. So they will never be specimens, never can be if they are beside a line. So why bother going to all that trouble to spurless climb them? Say you have a 69 rs ss camaro, was in almost perfect shape and then some drunk smashed the front end in bad with his truck-now do you really care about the tiny bit of rust under the door? Thats the best analogy I can make sorry. As far as ladders go, I could see using them in a backyard easment, but there is no way I would pack one into the bush, span after span, on a transmission job. Another thing I was taught is if you are cutting something and it goes bad, get rid of it, cut it off, never let it stay in the tree and touch the line or you and the line. Hey, I do admire you for trying to ween me off spurs, but its kind of like trying to help a drug addict-they have to admit they have a problem first.

 

[okietreedude1]

Clear, I say i have had no formal training. What I mean by that is I havenever attended classes and have no certificate. However, my boss has been doing clearance for close to 20 yrs. He is a ISA Arborist and Utility arborist. He has also done some training for ACRT as well as filled in at a Job Corp in Arkansas during absences.

Ive been climbing for over 10 yrs and we work around elec. all the time. I know the procedures, rules, etc.

Here too, there is no requirment to notify the power co first. Boss said they used to have to and when he'd call, theyd give hima 'yea....so....' type attitude over the phone so he eventually stoppped. That is no longer required.

I realize all tools in the tree except for the poles are not approved for touching or reaching in the danger zone. And I guess a metal handsaw (like theres another choice) is no worse than a steel core lany. I think most here just cant imagine the idea. Im one of those, sorry.

You have been formally trained and are doing things as you were trained to the letter of the rules. GOOD FOR YOU! I applaude your desire to do so.

As for using a throwline over spikes...in the ROW out in the sticks, I have to agree what you do w/ spikes is not much worse that the cuts you make w/ your saws. Most of what Ive done has been residential. Most homeowners dont want the spikes. With that, the throwline comes out. Sure, poles may be quicker to get the rope in, but I think the line in ones bag leads them to feel they have to use it since they have it.

I think everyone knows my opinion of the steel core in LC so this is my last post. Can we find something else to hash out????

 

[tnttreeman]

Production coming first, and tree butchery happening anyway, I'd have to say that I'd spike up the trees as well. Clearance hit it on the head with his wrecked car analogy. Line trees in the middle of nowhere aren't backyard trees.
I live less than a quarter mile from a state park and there are transmission lines going through it. The ROW guys come through with a helicopter and trim the trees. Think that's any better for the trees than spiking them? I doubt it. No branch collar cuts going on there.

 

[topnotchtree]

I guess it all depends on where the trees are. You would not catch me lugging around a ladder way out in the boonies either, but a large majority of our trimming is in peoples yards. Trimmers generally use different trimming styles for yard trimming and far-out-in-the-boonies trimming. We pay much more attention to making the tree look as good as we can while in yards.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The ROW guys come through with a helicopter and trim the trees. Think that's any better for the trees than spiking them? I doubt it. No branch collar cuts going on there.

It depends on how long the shattered stubbs that are left are. Damage to a trunck and a branch end are completely different.

Would a comparison of gaffing trees in the bonnies and prison sex be against the guidlines? If your there everyone is doing it....

 

[clearance]

J.P.S.-you have really crossed the line now. Treework is good wholesome fun, no place for any discussion of perversion like you just did. Guys I work with refer to men who spurless climb as fags, and say that i.s.a. guys "fag" out trees, that means pruning a tree that should have been cut down. Myself, I think its wrong to cast aspersions on someones sexuality because of how they do treework. Spurless i.s.a. guys are not gay, a little effeminate maybe, but not gay.

 

[okietreedude1]

A bit off topic here but in relation to the prison thing...I once had a guy accuse me of being an ex-con because I trimmed trees. He thought it was an inmate learned thing and only connies trimmed trees.

I laughed.