GeoffM
ArboristSite Operative
I agree. Repairing old saws is something you can only do as a hobby, because nobody,as Belgian rightly says,is going to pay you for the amount of time you have invested.
Geoff.
Stihl Chainsaw Service: Restoration or Repair?
- Thread starter parrishturf
- Start date
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I agree. Repairing old saws is something you can only do as a hobby, because nobody,as Belgian rightly says,is going to pay you for the amount of time you have invested.
Geoff.
parrishturf
ArboristSite Operative
Now I'm Quoting myself!
Good lord people...take a joke, for a joke!
My point in starting this thread is to develop a business strategy that is fair, viable, and sustainable. Certainly no company could exist performing restoration on chainsaws. But I know that no one is served well by selling a customer a rope and a clevis, and suggesting the customer find water and a boat. (By the way that was a joke, obserd humor used to illustrate a point.)
So...Simply put I have no intentions of lurking around in the background.
Good lord people...take a joke, for a joke!
My point in starting this thread is to develop a business strategy that is fair, viable, and sustainable. Certainly no company could exist performing restoration on chainsaws. But I know that no one is served well by selling a customer a rope and a clevis, and suggesting the customer find water and a boat. (By the way that was a joke, obserd humor used to illustrate a point.)
So...Simply put I have no intentions of lurking around in the background.
parrishturf
ArboristSite Operative
Stihl 0XX Saws
Our shop has taken in an 032av, 034, and an 045 this week for repair. I would really like to help thease customers all 3 need the saws in their work. Money is tight all over now. I am asking you all in your experience how can I help them? Forget cost, how can I make a saw run when pistons, cylinders, seals, boots, etc. are no longer distributed by Stihl. I am aware of no Aftermarket cylinders that will fit thease saws. The cylinders cannot be boared, or even honed, I don't think.
The saws are worth saving to the customer, and I am helpless to them without parts.
What should I do for thease people?
Our shop has taken in an 032av, 034, and an 045 this week for repair. I would really like to help thease customers all 3 need the saws in their work. Money is tight all over now. I am asking you all in your experience how can I help them? Forget cost, how can I make a saw run when pistons, cylinders, seals, boots, etc. are no longer distributed by Stihl. I am aware of no Aftermarket cylinders that will fit thease saws. The cylinders cannot be boared, or even honed, I don't think.
The saws are worth saving to the customer, and I am helpless to them without parts.
What should I do for thease people?
rms61moparman
Addicted to ArboristSite
Look right up at the top of the page!!!
One of our sponsors is Chainsawr.com
He has a plethora of great used parts at very reasonable prices.
Mike
MostShady1
Addicted to ArboristSite
This just to emphasize that our sponsorers are also very reliable and well stocked. I have found parts that I would have bet the saw I would not find, through them, and them only. Forget Ebay, your only asking for trouble trying to run a business on Ebay used parts.
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
I wish I could help but the parts you mentioned are in most cases why saws are junked. Just about any saw I take in that doesn't run right has the same old problem, scored up piston, rings and cylinder.
Finding pistons and cylinders new or used is tough. Saw salvage guys are one source, but good used pistons and cylinders are in short supply and most don't have these parts which is one of the reasons why I cut back on fixing older saws.
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parrishturf
ArboristSite Operative
0xx Parts Source
I have access to most things from Stihl except bearings and top end parts.
The bearings I have solved with 6002, and 6202, sealed bearings. I use them without the external seals. The snap ring has to be removed from the housing in some cases in order to get bearing in place.
If there was another jug that could be made to fit...The bolt patern is so small on the 03x saws.
If anyone has seen anything carved into one of these saws let me know!
I have access to most things from Stihl except bearings and top end parts.
The bearings I have solved with 6002, and 6202, sealed bearings. I use them without the external seals. The snap ring has to be removed from the housing in some cases in order to get bearing in place.
If there was another jug that could be made to fit...The bolt patern is so small on the 03x saws.
If anyone has seen anything carved into one of these saws let me know!
Bearings come from a bearing supplier - all of the Stihl bearings I've needed have been standard items, often they are listed in the IPL under the standard reference number. Be careful on the spec, some are C3 - which means they are sloppy when cold, but can cope with the heat at 14K rpm. (I think).
Ditto seals.
Pistons and jugs are the problem. They're always toast, and they're hard to get hold of. I am amazed that the aftermarket guys don't knock out a few batches - it wouldn't be hard, and I think the demand is there.
Ditto seals.
Pistons and jugs are the problem. They're always toast, and they're hard to get hold of. I am amazed that the aftermarket guys don't knock out a few batches - it wouldn't be hard, and I think the demand is there.
Cody@SPE
ArboristSite Member
In my opinion, when working on older saws such as an 031, a restoration sounds more feasable. My reasoning behind this, is that if you just "fix" the saw, you might run into more problems than just restoring it. With all the aftermarket parts available for the older Stihl saws, a top and bottom end rebuild would cost less than $250. If your considering labor, then trying to find the problems with these older saws can be aggravating and tie up countless hours. By fully restoring it, you can guarantee yourself that the problems are fixed. Just my 2 cents
fearofpavement
Trying them all
Fixing older saws is not likely to be a money maker when doing it for a customer as there are very few who will shell out the dollars it would take to restore a saw. Many car restorations cost much more than the car is worth after its done. You'll see ads like "1966 Mustang for sale $12,500. Spent over $20,000 on restoration and have receipts." The situation is that no matter what you spend refurbishing something, there is still a market value cap on the item. The only exception of this is when there is sentimental value. So if someone was fixing up their grandma's Mustang, money may not be an object. They want it looking like it did when they were a little kid and it was brand new. Some will want their dad's or grandpa's saw fixed up like that too. Problem is, that is a very limited number of people and the chances of more than a few of them coming into any one particular saw shop is slim. The vintage market for chainsaws is strong for two reasons in my opinion. First is that these old saws have very little value when not running. The second is that there are those that "like" these old saws for nostalgic reasons and fix them up more as a labor of love than as a means to make a living. If one is honest, if you divide the profit by the hours it took to fix the saw and remember to include driving around to find them, postage for parts, electricity for the shop, etc etc. Is there really any profit of significance? I contend not much. It is more of a hobby than a livelihood. The most money in reality is probably finding throw away saws for $10 and cleaning the carbs and selling them for $50. They're not "cool" to work on though.
Fish
Tree Freak
Another problem is that these saws have little value "when" running.......
parrishturf
ArboristSite Operative
This is a very old thread but thank you for your thoughts. Please read back deeply in the posts.
The concept of restoration vs repair is not so much about the work being performed its about setting customer expectations. A man that brings his 031 into a shop and says make it run has no clue at that point what the potential of the saw is, or the real costs involved to reach that potential. If you accept the saw under that premise you now "Owe" that man a working saw, Yet you have no clue of the customers real expectations. From the shops point of view its an old saw, stihl has almost no major components and there are no aftermarket suppliers for jugs. If you have worked on these old saws you know how poor the ignition is, and you can bet the seals are toast.
So what can you "Do". You must establish a clear work-plan with the customer. You cannot just accept the saw and say "well i'll put a kit in the carb". The shop is the "Expert" in this transaction.
Just as soon a a novice with Grandpa's saw decides he is going to use it to clear land for a mobile home, the shop now has to support a 30 year old boat anchor for a task that even new equipment would show wear and tare. The point of using a "Restoration" approach is not to make the saw renewed. It is to bring a classic piece of memorabilia back to life, and use it for sure, but limit the expectations of its work potential, establish a true cost for the work. The customer has to "want it", and the shop has to be compensated for the real costs of what will surly turn into a full overhaul and most likely installation of used parts.
I love to see an old 041 or even an 019 being used again, but it is not good business to pretend that $15.00 dollars labor, and a $12.00 dollar carb kit is going to put most 30 year old saws back to work.
cajunhillbilly
ArboristSite Operative
I stumbled on to this thread due to the resurrection. My first post the other day http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/186512.htm with photos, pertains a little to what I'm doing as well as many on AS. I'm doing it as a hobby not a living though. Restoration is difficult parts wise and expensive for average people. I'm more into fixing and running these saws. It can be done with very reasonable cost and tons-o-fun. If I were to charge people by the hour to restore old saws, I'm sure my day job pays better unless you get a guy, or girl, that's wants PawPaw's saw looking like the day he bought it, even more exciting running that way. I can see a lot of potential here. I've given this a lot of thought myself. I like making knives too, but it don't pay, I do all this for a little cash (mad money) and to keep from getting soft sitting in the laz-z-boy. This is good for me someday...maybe, but right now just so much fun ripping curls with these old gems.
StihlyinEly
Addicted to ArboristSite
It wasn't until I read this specific post that I new Tim is proposing this restoration service as part of an existing shop/dealership.
As others have said, I don't think it can stand on its own. However, as part of an existing shop, I see it as a viable, though certainly small to start with, portion of the business. One must carefully and honestly communicate with someone interested in a possible saw restoration, with costs and potential pitfalls discussed in detail. What you're really doing is bonding with the customer on an emotional level. I know, we're mostly a bunch of guys in here, but honestly, you are making a partnership with the customer to bring that old saw back. You better believe someone who will spend $500-$800 or more to restore grandpa's 40-year-old saw is doing it for emotional reasons.
If each job is painstakingly done, with before-and-after photos taken, and with a growing list of satisfied customers, over time the shop will develop a reputation for this kind of work. Why the pics? For the saw restoration Web site, folks, because that and great word-of-mouth are what will get the news out there.
And really, there's very little financial outlay in offering this kind of service at an existing operation. So why not?
parrishturf
ArboristSite Operative
You get it! Someone finally read through this thing and you get it!Years ago someone stated "he would not set foot in my shop", someone else told me to "move into the background" and "stop using the folks here for Ideas" and "to stop stealing grandpas saw".
Finally...
OREGONLOGGER
ArboristSite Guru
All the old Stihls that the dealer has no parts for get refered to me at my shop here in the PNW. I have just about every part for old Stihls (Pre 1972 Metal only) even the Bosch ignitions 064 - 090 are complete saws sorry no parts there . Customers that have these saws that bring to the dealers across the country and want them fixed don't get pointed in the right direction sometimes and they want to sell them some plastic saw instead..and then there is some great dealers who may have old parts fix the saw in a hour and out the door you go..like my shop:hmm3grin2orange:
parrishturf
ArboristSite Operative
031 New approach...
I had a well used 031 today with decent annular bushings and chose a new approach to the service.
The saw would not rev, and sputtered, and when carb was adjusted the results were always different.
I did my 1 hour overhaul with points adjuatment and confirmed the capacitance of the ignition cap.
I dismantled the saw down to the case, cleaned every thing, checked the seals, cleaned the exhaust port of layers of carbon, measured the rings for wear, installed a carb kit, put it all back together. Charged $65.00 + the kit, and the saw is happily back at work.
My point is, I do not have to worry about a callback, I can trust that the saw is stable, and not sucking air, and that the ignition is stable. In the past the carb kit would have been the extent of the repair.
I had a well used 031 today with decent annular bushings and chose a new approach to the service.
The saw would not rev, and sputtered, and when carb was adjusted the results were always different.
I did my 1 hour overhaul with points adjuatment and confirmed the capacitance of the ignition cap.
I dismantled the saw down to the case, cleaned every thing, checked the seals, cleaned the exhaust port of layers of carbon, measured the rings for wear, installed a carb kit, put it all back together. Charged $65.00 + the kit, and the saw is happily back at work.
My point is, I do not have to worry about a callback, I can trust that the saw is stable, and not sucking air, and that the ignition is stable. In the past the carb kit would have been the extent of the repair.
Now you're talkin'! Very cool.
Can I send you mine?:msp_tongue:
'Course they won't ALL be that easy, but with any luck and decent volume, it should even out for you over time.
Props for sticking to your intentions and nursing the idea along. Needs to be more shops like yours. I'm lucky to have one in my area, particularly for parts in my case. It's the smallest shop of around a dozen within 20 miles of me....and the busiest.
Poge
parrishturf
ArboristSite Operative
Now you're talkin'! Very cool.
Can I send you mine?:msp_tongue:
'Course they won't ALL be that easy, but with any luck and decent volume, it should even out for you over time.
Props for sticking to your intentions and nursing the idea along. Needs to be more shops like yours. I'm lucky to have one in my area, particularly for parts in my case. It's the smallest shop of around a dozen within 20 miles of me....and the busiest.
Poge
Thanks for support....
