Stihl MS362-C: Brake band loose/guide lugs sheared off?

[SarahSawyer]

Hi all,

I have two 362's presenting the same issue. First noticed that when the chain brake is engaged, the clutch drum appears to pop up on the right side aka it is being forced to the right as opposed to sitting properly in the center. After removing the brake band, nothing appears to be wrong with the part. However, the "guide lugs" (see attached diagram for this bizarre term) which keep the brake band in place have sheared off on the right side, allowing for the band to pop up and out of place when the chain brake is engaged.

These "lugs" appear to be part of the saw's housing aka not a replaceable part. Has anyone seen this happen before and did you find out why? Are my two saws shot from this small issue?

 

[ZeroJunk]

Dumb question, is the drum needle cage bearing in there ?

 

[Lightning Performance]

Hi all,

I have two 362's presenting the same issue. First noticed that when the chain brake is engaged, the clutch drum appears to pop up on the right side aka it is being forced to the right as opposed to sitting properly in the center. After removing the brake band, nothing appears to be wrong with the part. However, the "guide lugs" (see attached diagram for this bizarre term) which keep the brake band in place have sheared off on the right side, allowing for the band to pop up and out of place when the chain brake is engaged.

These "lugs" appear to be part of the saw's housing aka not a replaceable part. Has anyone seen this happen before and did you find out why? Are my two saws shot from this small issue?

If you have an operators presents lever chain brake they exert too much pressure on the drum and the bearing goes out from leaving it idol with the brake on. In short order it rips up your brake band.

 

[trains]

has the saw been used to cut palms, palm oil can rot the magnesium and cause damage like you have described.
whats the rest of that area look like ?
As mentioned the bearing needs to be checked too, post up some pics.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hi all,

I have two 362's presenting the same issue. First noticed that when the chain brake is engaged, the clutch drum appears to pop up on the right side aka it is being forced to the right as opposed to sitting properly in the center. After removing the brake band, nothing appears to be wrong with the part. However, the "guide lugs" (see attached diagram for this bizarre term) which keep the brake band in place have sheared off on the right side, allowing for the band to pop up and out of place when the chain brake is engaged.

These "lugs" appear to be part of the saw's housing aka not a replaceable part. Has anyone seen this happen before and did you find out why? Are my two saws shot from this small issue?

I have seen this on high hour saws and there is no fix other than swap out the case side. The more the chain brake is operated, on/off the more wear results. Guys that snap the brake on every time they move then off to cut again cause a great deal of wear to the brake operating mechanisms.

 

[SarahSawyer]

Dumb question, is the drum needle cage bearing in there ?

Not a dumb question, I should've included that detail. Yes, it does this with the needle bearing in. Thanks.

 

[SarahSawyer]

has the saw been used to cut palms, palm oil can rot the magnesium and cause damage like you have described.
whats the rest of that area look like ?
As mentioned the bearing needs to be checked too, post up some pics.

No palms, but that’s interesting. It is more of a wear/shearing off than anything. I’ve attached photos here.

has the saw been used to cut palms, palm oil can rot the magnesium and cause damage like you have described.
whats the rest of that area look like ?
As mentioned the bearing needs to be checked too, post up some pics.

 

[SarahSawyer]

I have seen this on high hour saws and there is no fix other than swap out the case side. The more the chain brake is operated, on/off the more wear results. Guys that snap the brake on every time they move then off to cut again cause a great deal of wear to the brake operating mechanisms.

This seems to be the most realistic cause to me. These saws are only about 4 years old but see use almost daily and we are frequent users of the chain brake.

What do you mean by “swap out the case side”? Is there a way to replace the entire housing on that side?

 

[trains]

Ive built up those using jb weld, or a metal epoxy, and filed to shape to save a case side.
again, prep is what takes longest, get it clean clean clean.
degreaser, acetone, heat, and repeat, the mag is porous so extra time on the cleaning ensures the repair lasts.

 

[stihltech]

Does the clutch drum wiggle much side to side? Look at he bore. Sounds like a lot of wear .

 

[pioneerguy600]

This seems to be the most realistic cause to me. These saws are only about 4 years old but see use almost daily and we are frequent users of the chain brake.

What do you mean by “swap out the case side”? Is there a way to replace the entire housing on that side?

The crankcase side can be replaced on some models of Stihl saws, some can be swapped others will not line up accurately, I have swapped many 044 and 440 cases although it was not recommended by many my saws still run very well with no issues. I deal more with the 026, 036 and 044 size saws and they are built much the same as the 362. I own two 362 models but have not put enough hours on them yet to wear anything out, the spark module failed on one and the carb on the same saw, the second saw has had no issues yet. Those lugs that support the brake band are present on every Stihl saw I have seen , run or owned, high hour saws all showed wear on the lugs, it had nothing to do with the clutch drum bearings or a wobbling clutch drum, it is the movement of the brake band being set and released over and over, the more it is used the more wear will result.

 

[SarahSawyer]

Ive built up those using jb weld, or a metal epoxy, and filed to shape to save a case side.
again, prep is what takes longest, get it clean clean clean.
degreaser, acetone, heat, and repeat, the mag is porous so extra time on the cleaning ensures the repair lasts.

Huh, thanks for this idea. Has the repair been long-lasting?

 

[SarahSawyer]

Does the clutch drum wiggle much side to side? Look at he bore. Sounds like a lot of wear .

Only when the chain brake is disengaged does the drum have give.

 

[SarahSawyer]

The crankcase side can be replaced on some models of Stihl saws, some can be swapped others will not line up accurately, I have swapped many 044 and 440 cases although it was not recommended by many my saws still run very well with no issues. I deal more with the 026, 036 and 044 size saws and they are built much the same as the 362. I own two 362 models but have not put enough hours on them yet to wear anything out, the spark module failed on one and the carb on the same saw, the second saw has had no issues yet. Those lugs that support the brake band are present on every Stihl saw I have seen , run or owned, high hour saws all showed wear on the lugs, it had nothing to do with the clutch drum bearings or a wobbling clutch drum, it is the movement of the brake band being set and released over and over, the more it is used the more wear will result.

Thank you, this is very helpful. I’ll have to do some research, but we do have a 362 “parts saw” which died a few years before. If I can find a way to replace the crankcase side, we might be able to give one of the saws a few more years.

I think you’ve identified the cause, too: high-hour saw with frequent chain brake use. Thanks a lot for your help.

One last thought: If we are unable to replace or repair the lugs, you think we should table the saws? The biggest hazards of continuing to run it in my mind is the eventually failure of the brake to engage in an emergency situation, or that the clutch drum could jump the worm drive/oiler lever and prevent oiling of the bar/put strain on the parts around the crankshaft.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Thank you, this is very helpful. I’ll have to do some research, but we do have a 362 “parts saw” which died a few years before. If I can find a way to replace the crankcase side, we might be able to give one of the saws a few more years.

I think you’ve identified the cause, too: high-hour saw with frequent chain brake use. Thanks a lot for your help.

One last thought: If we are unable to replace or repair the lugs, you think we should table the saws? The biggest hazards of continuing to run it in my mind is the eventually failure of the brake to engage in an emergency situation, or that the clutch drum could jump the worm drive/oiler lever and prevent oiling of the bar/put strain on the parts around the crankshaft.

I have not personally experienced any damage from these worn out lugs as far as the brake working such as on some of my older 044`s that had clocked very high hours of run time on commercial harvests. Many of the saws I have worked over/rebuilt were very high hour saws used by professional cutters, pulp wood harvesters, loggers and arborists. Those were the saws I did see the most wear on the brake components, the brakes did work and there was no problems with the oil pump drive, oil pump or the clutch drum/bearings so it would be difficult to say it would be very dangerous or likely to cause more damage to the saw itself. If you feel it is dangerous then by all means do not continue to run them, I would never recommend running a tool that was totally dangerous. On my own chainsaws the brake would only be used if accidentally set which occasionally happens from a branch or brush catching the lever when liming. Every operator is different in when to use the brake so again for one individual to say its perfectly fine to run the saw with a badly worn brake component would be unwise. If you are allowing others to run the saws then it would be most wise to have the saws in top conditon

 

[trains]

Huh, thanks for this idea. Has the repair been long-lasting?

yes 5 years so far, again prep to make sure its clean is important.
once its holding the brake band correctly again, as some fine tuning with the file will be needed so its even around the drum, it will operate just as it should.
if the clutch drum is wobbling when the band / brake is off, then I would look closely at the drum where the bearing is, and the bearing itself, and whilst your there, a good look at the crank surface.
post up more pics.
ive seen worn centers where the bearing runs on the drum, even tho the drum where the shoes fit were hardly worn.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Seems to me that if the clutch drum is good, and the bearing is good, and the crankshaft is good, that it can't move much. Sort of the point of all of it.

 

[stihltech]

Seems to me that if the clutch drum is good, and the bearing is good, and the crankshaft is good, that it can't move much. Sort of the point of all of it.

Exactly the point. The lugs are most likely not the issue.

 

[SarahSawyer]

Exactly the point. The lugs are most likely not the issue.

The lugs are the only presenting issue with the saw. I believe ZeroJunk is saying that the saw is still operable if the parts themselves are in good condition. Thanks.

 

[SarahSawyer]

I have not personally experienced any damage from these worn out lugs as far as the brake working such as on some of my older 044`s that had clocked very high hours of run time on commercial harvests. Many of the saws I have worked over/rebuilt were very high hour saws used by professional cutters, pulp wood harvesters, loggers and arborists. Those were the saws I did see the most wear on the brake components, the brakes did work and there was no problems with the oil pump drive, oil pump or the clutch drum/bearings so it would be difficult to say it would be very dangerous or likely to cause more damage to the saw itself. If you feel it is dangerous then by all means do not continue to run them, I would never recommend running a tool that was totally dangerous. On my own chainsaws the brake would only be used if accidentally set which occasionally happens from a branch or brush catching the lever when liming. Every operator is different in when to use the brake so again for one individual to say its perfectly fine to run the saw with a badly worn brake component would be unwise. If you are allowing others to run the saws then it would be most wise to have the saws in top conditon

This very helpful. Thank you.