Surprize when I got home tonight!

[jasult]

two years ago my office was broken into all that was taken was a random check from the check book. the thieves made the check out for v$2,500, signed it with a first name only and the boa cashed it!! I own the company, I'm on the account, the bank knows me and I could not do that without showing ID etc. The bank would not release survelance tapes to the police and replaced the money the next day. It had to be an inside job with one of the tellers. If I want to take out more than 1k I have to show id and talk to a manager. as usual p--- on the little guy. I'm still venting.

This is why a mattress is sometime your best friend. I have a friend also in construction that gets lots of cash customers and he just don't trust banks 100%.

 

[bowtechmadman]

Another good idea is to alter your times coming and going. Thieves will pattern you and your family as to when someone isn't home.
I had a vehicle stolen off our property and we had to tell the detective to review the video tapes of the meijers gas station (we knew they filled up there...wife had left her gas card in the vehicle).
They caught him and he went to court for 52 felony charges...mostly theft/drug charges.

 

[Tesen]

Who said anything about it being LOGIC? It's not logic and it's not justice.


Sadly, it's reality. No, I don't like it, and I don't support politicians who appoint the kind of judges that have brought us to this.


But it's still our present reality.

And this kind of thing makes me very angry it also explains why my one buddy is the way he is. I am not advocating shooting someone to stop equipment theft, I will shoot anyone that points a weapon at me, and it will be self defense.

A couple years ago, some dude was playing with the doors of my wives minivan, it was early in the AM. The was a stranger, tresspassing and trying to B&E. I walked out with a Katana visible, mune resting against my back, so it was not pointing at him. Enough moonlight to make it reflect, so obvious I had a blade, I then used my remote keylock and locked the van which makes it "honk" for a second and all lights flash.

The guy jumped out of his underwear when that happened, and I said to him "Now that I have your attention, any reason you are trying to rip me off?" He took off running. Never came back (good).

Based on what you've said, if a cop car pulled in saw me brandishing a weapon, I could be the one that was charged? Ohio has a form of Castle Doctrine, are you telling me that is void when YOU have a weapon?

Tes

 

[SkyP]

Guess again. HE has committed no crime. None. Does it look fishy? Of course it does. But the fact remains, he has committed no crime, and an officer doesn't even have probable cause to arrest him.

See thats why I have "no trespassing" signs on my property. In the OP's case if he'd have had the signs then the "visitor" did in fact commit a crime. Without the signs you got nothin'
I don't like the signs marring the beauty of my land but in today's climate it is necessary unfortunately.

 

[sawkiller]

I am not sure about the brandishing a pistol law around here? We were taught in our concealed carry class to first brandish the weapon if the situation might not yet warrant deadly force or action. This was for 2 reasons number 1 if the gun is in your hand it is quickly accesible if needed and Number 2 let the perp know you are serious and will not be an easy victim!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

We were taught in our concealed carry class to first brandish the weapon if the situation might not yet warrant deadly force or action. !

You were taught by an idiot wannabe. Time to look up a GOOD instructor!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

See thats why I have "no trespassing" signs on my property. In the OP's case if he'd have had the signs then the "visitor" did in fact commit a crime. Without the signs you got nothin'
I don't like the signs marring the beauty of my land but in today's climate it is necessary unfortunately.

Bingo.

 

[Muffler Bearing]

That's a little aggressive don't you think? Or are you just trying to come off as a tough guy? I hope it's the latter. There's absolutely no proof, still, that he was up to anything bad. Shoot someone because they were in your driveway?

Little thing I thearn at the school off hard knocks...You don't have to be bad..

It's Just The Bad Don't #### With Me.

It's Called Top Of The Food Chain.

!

 

[sawkiller]

You were taught by an idiot wannabe. Time to look up a GOOD instructor!

The man was far from an idiot and highly regarded in his field. He is also an ex police officer and has taught more people in and around the west side of cincinnati than any other instructor I know. I will be glad to give you his contact info if needed!

I think our definition of brandish may be the disagreement! I say brandish and really mean having the firearm at a low ready.

If you pull up in your driveway and there is 3 rough looking folks sitting on the porch and a minivan sitting in the drive obviously loaded with stuff that may very well be yours what do you do? Option 1 call the cops and run like hell! That is a viable option and may be the most play it safe option but around here the cops are a minimum of 10 minutes out. Option 2 pull out your firearm and start shooting! Not a smart decision yet, you don't know there intent, you may very well kill the kirby salesman waiting on you to get home! Option 3 Remove your firearm from concealment and aproach the men from a distance with the gun at a low ready keeping the fire arm concealed behind you but handy if needed. This would probably be my option I have no intent to use my firearm but if needed I will and when needed I want it at hand if I have the choice! I would first look in the van to see if it was my stuff and then cautiously approach and ask if they needed help with something if they were selling vacs I would get their plate# while they were leaving and if they were a threat I would do what was necessary to defend myself! While I am not allowed to defend my property with a firearm I can defend myself against the thiefs!

Next scenario: Its on of those dark nights no moon what so ever and you have found the only ATM in the middle of this city and unfortunately its a walkup with a blown street light of course. You insert your card and the money comes out and just as the money comes out someone arms wrap around you from behind! You struggle and push them back a few feet and begin backing up as you pull your firearm from concealment! Option 1: Shoot him and figure it all out later! Option 2: Brandish firearm at a low ready be aware of surroundings and try to put distance between you and call 911! Option 3: Start screaming and run like hell.

If you said option 1 congrats you just killed an autistic gentleman who was unaware that he should not give everyone a hug. He was a very likable guy and the whole neighborhood is grieving as he always had a smile on his face and a hug for everyone! If you said option 2 you probably didn't fire a shot and had to give the man a hug when you realized he was no threat and help him find his way home! If you said option 3 well I guess you want to take the chance of being shot in the back or being attacked from behind and that is your choice!

Unfortunately there is alot of gray area in when to use a firearm and not any situation will be textbook. Most people who truly intend to harm you are cowards deep down and will use surprise to attack you will you be ready!!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I think our definition of brandish may be the disagreement! I say brandish and really mean having the firearm at a low ready.

Yep. That's the problem. That is NOT what the word "brandish" means!


You'd be hard pressed to find a jurisdiction in which brandishing a firearm is NOT a crime.


If your guy is that well qualified, I very much doubt he used the word "brandish" to describe holding a gun at low ready!

 

[RVALUE]

Don't bash me,

But What does brandish mean to you, and where (when) is the crime committed?

 

[sawkiller]

I specifically remember him using the term and saying that you are basicly showing the bad guy you have a gun without pointing or threatening! Then describing it as a low ready! Maybe a different meaning in Cinci. kinda of like chili is not real chili in Cinci!

 

[RVALUE]

Is letting someone know you have a gun, brandishing and also a crime?

Or do you have to point it at them?

I vaguely remember from the Police academy that waving a gun around playfully was brandishing ALSO.

I'm not sure what constitutes a crime in letting someone know you have a gun, in normal states that is.

 

[sawkiller]

Is letting someone know you have a gun, brandishing and also a crime?

Or do you have to point it at them?

I vaguely remember from the Police academy that waving a gun around playfully was brandishing ALSO.

I'm not sure what constitutes a crime in letting someone know you have a gun, in normal states that is.

I will be honest I don't know the legal definition! I am also pretty sure that it changes from state to state.

I am also sure that what is illegal with a firearm varies according to a few things. Number 1 Who you are (normal guy or trouble maker) Number 2 where you are (home or in the middle of wal-mart) Number 3 state you are in Number 4 The responding officers attitude towards a normal citizen with a firearm Number 5 The provocation to pull out the firearm.

 

[RVALUE]

I will be honest I don't know the legal definition! I am also pretty sure that it changes from state to state.

I am also sure that what is illegal with a firearm varies according to a few things. Number 1 Who you are (normal guy or trouble maker) Number 2 where you are (home or in the middle of wal-mart) Number 3 state you are in Number 4 The responding officers attitude towards a normal citizen with a firearm Number 5 The provocation to pull out the firearm.

Great points. The above was at home and someone called crime.

Most likely not.

 

[dingeryote]

Gents,

As soon as the law gets involved, the charge of "Brandishing" will be up to the prosecutor, and it will be considered.

The cop that shows up to take the other guys statement and yours, will not be the one deciding.

If you expose your sidearm or it is seen, and somebody gets a twist in thier pantys over it, intended or not, it could be "Brandishing".

Holding a shotgun while grouse hunting is not brandishing.
Get into a heated argument while holding your shotgun during a grouse hunt, could very well be "Brandishing".

Keep the sidearm concealed untill you figure it needs to be used.
If you need a weapon to scare some idiot off, back off and let the cops deal with it, otherwise you are potentially escalating and armed confrontation and putting the liability on yourself if things go ugly.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[sawkiller]

Gents,

As soon as the law gets involved, the charge of "Brandishing" will be up to the prosecutor, and it will be considered.

The cop that shows up to take the other guys statement and yours, will not be the one deciding.

If you expose your sidearm or it is seen, and somebody gets a twist in thier pantys over it, intended or not, it could be "Brandishing".

Holding a shotgun while grouse hunting is not brandishing.
Get into a heated argument while holding your shotgun during a grouse hunt, could very well be "Brandishing".

Keep the sidearm concealed untill you figure it needs to be used.
If you need a weapon to scare some idiot off, back off and let the cops deal with it, otherwise you are potentially escalating and armed confrontation and putting the liability on yourself if things go ugly.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

I think we are on the same page and still yet not seeing each others point. I agree that the firearm should stay concealed until needed but there are times where the mere sight of a firearm can de escalate the attackers plan. You don't want to do it to settle an argument or to win a barfight. Only in a true I thought me or my families life was in danger situation would I pull mine out.
Now on my own property is a different issue alltogether. I can carry a gun in my hand at a low ready around my property any time I want to. Everytime I walk to the house or back to the truck there is a firearm in my hand and not because I am scared, because I don't like to leave it in the truck. Now if I go down to the highway and start pointing and waving it at people that will get me in trouble. But if I answer the door when a stranger knocks with a gun at a low ready in my hand and they see the firearm through the glass window on my door I haven't broken any laws and if I have then I have done it several times. If I pull in as the OP did and there is a stranger in my drive the first thing I personally would do is call the sherriff and block them in if no one was home! If my wife and kids are home I will do what I have to!

 

[BPS. LLC]

By nature most thieves are cowards, and once you make eye contact and create a situation of potential conflict, they will go away and find easier pickin's.

Very True. Always remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. That being said, I feel as though many security features give us a false sense of security. If someone wants to get in your house, they can and will. Check out the below video on Youtube about bump keys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwTVBWCijEQ

Not every state provides protection from criminal and civil liability if you were to shoot someone breaking into your home. Articulating that you are in fear of your life is essential, not just the mere fact that someone entered your home. This element is required in some states and can prevent civil liability in others. The saying, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" comes into play here.

Being able defend yourself is key. Don't be a victim in your own home. I think securing your valuables in a gun safe is one of the best ways. They can be bolted down, are extremely heavy and difficult to access. As a bonus, good ones are fireproof to varying degrees and temperatures. Depending on the police response time, if an alarm went off, it would be difficult to either breach or remove the safe before the police arrived.

I have a Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun with a pistol grip and short barrel. It is just over legal length (I don't want to get arrested should I have to use it.) The tube is loaded 2 3/4" buckshot rounds, with the dowel rod removed. It sits beside my bed every night. Racking the shotgun in itself is generally a good attention getter. Everyone knows that sound, and if they're somewhere they're not supposed to be, fight or flight is going to kick in. Chances are they will flee, unless they are armed.

Generally, burglars like to avoid conflict and are stealthy. Home invasions generally occur over drugs. A street robbery is the most unpredictable situation. These people are desperate and unpredictable. I carry a Glock 27, (.40 caliber) on my ankle when wearing long pants. Not easily accessible, but highly concealable. I have been frisked when entering events and 9 out of 10 times, it is missed! (I am a retired police detective)

Most of you, like me, live on larger parcels of land, often concealed from view. This is a double edge sword for obvious reasons. Always lock your doors to keep the "honest thieves" out. The biggest key is avoiding strangers in/around your house. For examply, my neighbors house was burglarized by someone who stopped at their garage sale the week prior. He had asked about things for sale in the garage. When he found out they weren't for sale, he returned and got the five finger discount. Many of these crimes are committed by associates of shady service people (cable, phone, electric, etc.) If you think about it, they get access to your house and can essentially shop around. Often, this information is relayed to an associate who commits the crime. I always make sure I am home when these people are in my house. I follow them around, and I tell them why I am following them.

Just throwing out some ideas. I have never been the victim of a crime, and hopefully I never am. Like someone said previously, not only are you losing your stuff, it effects you mentally. Hopefully, this helps.

 

[dingeryote]

I think we are on the same page and still yet not seeing each others point. I agree that the firearm should stay concealed until needed but there are times where the mere sight of a firearm can de escalate the attackers plan. You don't want to do it to settle an argument or to win a barfight. Only in a true I thought me or my families life was in danger situation would I pull mine out.
Now on my own property is a different issue alltogether. I can carry a gun in my hand at a low ready around my property any time I want to. Everytime I walk to the house or back to the truck there is a firearm in my hand and not because I am scared, because I don't like to leave it in the truck. Now if I go down to the highway and start pointing and waving it at people that will get me in trouble. But if I answer the door when a stranger knocks with a gun at a low ready in my hand and they see the firearm through the glass window on my door I haven't broken any laws and if I have then I have done it several times. If I pull in as the OP did and there is a stranger in my drive the first thing I personally would do is call the sherriff and block them in if no one was home! If my wife and kids are home I will do what I have to!

Sawkiller,

Same page it is. However though, the mere sight of a firearm in ones hands and the statement of that individual concerning "feeling threatened" wether intended or not, or in your home or not, may constitute brandishing if the prosecutor deems it worth the time, or at least added to other charges to plea against should things go sideways.

Open Carry in a holster on your own property ain't a bad idea, as any weapon in the hands for the purpose of intimidation IS exactly brandishing by any definition. Remember the term "Reasonable" as it applies to the purpose of having a weapon in the hands, as well as it's use. Reasonable to you and I ain't exactly the same as what it is to some citiot anti-gun liberal on the payroll of your local court.

Best strategy would be to set up an appointment with the local prosecutors office and talk with them concerning the matter and the use of deadly force in general.
Make sure to record names, day, date, time when you do.
It may come in handy later.

Barring that, set an appointment with a GOOD local criminal defense lawyer and discuss it with them, and make sure to keep the receipt for the consultation and put thier card in your wallet. It's cheap insurance.

All it takes is one nervous nellie Jehovas witness making exaggerated statements out of fear, and you'll be at least facing some pointed questions from the law, and possibly spending some serious coin for doing nothing wrong. Have seen it happen here.

Even have had family face the CCW review board for the matter for scaring off scrap thieves in thier PJ's and no place else but the hand to carry a sidearm in the wee hours. This isn't a liberal county by any means either.

They ain't my rules or ideas.
I think everybody should meet uninvited strangers with a smile and a good word, and a plan to eliminate them as a threat quickly if needed.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[GoRving]

Nowadays, we have to assume someone is guilty or up to something until they can prove otherwise. Especially if they're on your property for no obvious reason.