Surprize when I got home tonight!

[BlueRidgeMark]

I specifically remember him using the term and saying that you are basicly showing the bad guy you have a gun without pointing or threatening! Then describing it as a low ready! Maybe a different meaning in Cinci. kinda of like chili is not real chili in Cinci!

Definition of BRANDISH
transitive verb
1
: to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2
: to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner
Examples of BRANDISH

1. She brandished a stick at the dog.
2. I could see that he was brandishing a knife.

Here's Virginia's code:

§ 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense.

To bring it home for you, I can't find that Indiana specifically uses the word "brandish" in their statutes. What I did find is this:


http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch4.html

IC 35-47-4-3
Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally points a firearm at another person commits a Class D felony. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the firearm was not loaded.
As added by P.L.296-1995, SEC.2.

While the precise definition varies from one jurisdiction to another, the general understanding of the word us universal.

Your instructor was VERY sloppy, at BEST, to use that word to describe holding a gun at low ready. If you take him at his word, and make that part of your vocabulary, you may wind up in legal hot water because you used that word to describe (to an officer) what you did in an encounter with a bad guy. Words count, particularly where lawyers are involved.


If that instructor is really using that word (and you didn't just misunderstand), then I stand by my statement. He's an idiot, and you should never take a class from him again.

Frankly, I suspect he merely pointed out that holding a gun at low ready COULD be considered brandishing (which is true). That's NOT the same thing as recommending that you CALL it brandishing!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

... Home invasions generally occur over drugs.

Sadly, that's changing. I'm seeing more and more reports of home invasion robberies of ordinary folks.



But good post.


Well, maybe one quibble. Are you sure you want to rely on a pistol-gripped shotgun? Have you ever tried to actually hit anything with one of those?


I remember my instructor in junior police academy (high school) saying that he had seen many confrontations just melt away when a 12 gauge slide was racked.

"Come in and get me!"

CLACK-CLACK


"Uh, I'm coming out! Don't shoot!"

 

[sawkiller]

Here is the link www.woodhilltraining.com

 

[sawkiller]

We were also taught that the shotgun being a home defense gun is better than nothing but far from the best gun to use. If I have to "clear" my home in the middle of the night to get to my daughters bedroom on the other end of the house it is much easier to do that with a pistol and once again at a low ready. Preferably a 1 handed low ready so when I clear the corners if attacked I have 1 hand to keep them from my weapon and 1 to fire with if necessary. No I do not advocate fireing 1 handed except in the most urgent and extreme of situations such as above.

 

[Taxmantoo]

Said he had not been anywhere but his truck was warm.

If the Feral Bureau of Instigations takes a dislike to a guy, they're pretty quick to slap a $5,000 tracker under his car. Too bad most sheriffs can get federal aid for armored personnel carriers but not simple stuff like that. Sounds like your friend in the black pickup needs one of those under his truck. They just might solve a long string of burglaries if they could prove his truck spent five minutes at a break in site during the break in.

 

[Taxmantoo]

Is letting someone know you have a gun, brandishing and also a crime?

Or do you have to point it at them?

Brandishing is display, which should, IMO, involve intent on some level, but people have been harassed for 'brandishing' when they had a visible holstered sidearm.

Assault is pointing. No vagueness to that definition as far as I know.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Brandishing is display, which should, IMO, involve intent on some level, but people have been harassed for 'brandishing' when they had a visible holstered sidearm.

Yes, the charge is often used as a tool, either by good cops to "pile on" charges for a genuine BG, or by anti-gun cops to harass law abiding gun owners.

 

[BPS. LLC]

Sadly, that's changing. I'm seeing more and more reports of home invasion robberies of ordinary folks.



But good post.


Well, maybe one quibble. Are you sure you want to rely on a pistol-gripped shotgun? Have you ever tried to actually hit anything with one of those?


I remember my instructor in junior police academy (high school) saying that he had seen many confrontations just melt away when a 12 gauge slide was racked.

"Come in and get me!"

CLACK-CLACK


"Uh, I'm coming out! Don't shoot!"

Fortunately, in my area the "victims" of home invasions are almost always hardened criminals themselves. Its hard to miss anything with a 2 3/4 buckshot round with a short barrel. There's 9 .32 caliber pellets that are going to have the spread of an FBI CQB target at 7 yards. FBI studies have shown the majority of incidents are within 21 feet.

 

[1harlowr]

Fortunately, in my area the "victims" of home invasions are almost always hardened criminals themselves. Its hard to miss anything with a 2 3/4 buckshot round with a short barrel. There's 9 .32 caliber pellets that are going to have the spread of an FBI CQB target at 7 yards. FBI studies have shown the majority of incidents are within 21 feet.

Also with 00 you have to know where all 9 projectiles are going instead of one .40 cal. projectile. 8 out of 9 .32 cal. bullet in your target is great....except when that 9th one goes thru your kid's bedroom wall.

Short barrel + 00 = wide pattern at 20 feet jmho

 

[Dalmatian90]

Option 3 Remove your firearm from concealment and aproach the men from a distance with the gun at a low ready keeping the fire arm concealed behind you but handy if needed.

I agree that the firearm should stay concealed until needed but there are times where the mere sight of a firearm can de escalate the attackers plan.

Those are two very different concepts, at least as I understand the law in my part of the country.

The second scenario is perfectly justifiable -- in fear of your life, you showed an attacker a weapon.

The first scenario will get you before a judge...and not as a witness. There was no threat -- the suspicious persons were "at a distance" and you chose to move towards them and confront them with a gun in your hand. You probably increased the level of criminal culpability on your part by deliberately choosing to conceal that you had a weapon in your hand.

States do vary on the "duty to retreat" from a threat; but very few if any show legal sympathy for initiating an armed confrontation.

 

[sawkiller]

Those are two very different concepts, at least as I understand the law in my part of the country.

The second scenario is perfectly justifiable -- in fear of your life, you showed an attacker a weapon.

The first scenario will get you before a judge...and not as a witness. There was no threat -- the suspicious persons were "at a distance" and you chose to move towards them and confront them with a gun in your hand. You probably increased the level of criminal culpability on your part by deliberately choosing to conceal that you had a weapon in your hand.

States do vary on the "duty to retreat" from a threat; but very few if any show legal sympathy for initiating an armed confrontation.

I feel there is a difference between an armed confrontation initiated at the local grocery and approaching my own porch with caution because there is a group of strangers on it. I personally feel that a person should not have to retreat on their own property but these laws do vary by state and the above is my opinion only. However if attacked while entering my home I do have the right to defend myself.

 

[sawkiller]

HOUSE ENROLLED ACT No. 1028




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


AN ACT to amend the Indiana Code concerning firearms and self-defense.




Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Indiana:




SECTION 1. IC 35-41-3-2 IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2006]: Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; only and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, or curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, or curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against another person if the person reasonably believes that the
force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is not justified in using deadly force; unless and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).







The above is the Indiana code. It confirms that I do not have a duty to retreat on my own property however I can not just use deadly force without a reason! EVERY STATE LAW IS DIFFERENT SO PLEASE CHECK YOUR OWN!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Also with 00 you have to know where all 9 projectiles are going instead of one .40 cal. projectile. 8 out of 9 .32 cal. bullet in your target is great....except when that 9th one goes thru your kid's bedroom wall. Short barrel + 00 = wide pattern at 20 feet jmho

Nope. Watch these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57GvXtRnagc&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HlNiUpTkLU&feature=related

 

[KMB]

I know this thread will go on for a while. So far fellas, great info on knowing the law and thinking clearly and acting properly when it comes to firearms and dealing with strangers.

Kevin

 

[1harlowr]

Nope. Watch these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57GvXtRnagc&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HlNiUpTkLU&feature=related

Those are long barrels with tight chokes, guy in video said so himself about choke. Most home defense shotguns being sold are much shorter barrels. Cut 8-10" off those you'd see a lot of change in pattern. Have a good day

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Those are long barrels with tight chokes, guy in video said so himself about choke. Most home defense shotguns being sold are much shorter barrels. Cut 8-10" off those you'd see a lot of change in pattern. Have a good day

1. Chokes don't make a big difference.
2. Cut 8-10" off and you are looking at hard time in Pen Fed. He was using a 20" barrel.

Also, at 6-10 feet (typical inside a house) you are basically talking about a solid projectile. A choke is going to make NO measurable difference.

 

[Taxmantoo]

Those are long barrels with tight chokes, guy in video said so himself about choke. Most home defense shotguns being sold are much shorter barrels. Cut 8-10" off those you'd see a lot of change in pattern. Have a good day

I got 18.5" cylinder bore barrels on a clearance sale, put them on a couple of 12ga pumps for indoor use. At 10', pattern with OO buck is about the size of a softball. IIRC, it was more like 30" at 20-25'. Shooting anything with family members downrange behind a couple pieces of sheetrock strikes me as rather stupid anyway.

 

[RTK]

As mentioned before, No matter what choke, what shot size or barrel length at 7 feet you are going to have a pattern not much bigger than the size of the hole it came out of, and whether 00 or 6 shot it will basically go threw and do the same damage.......................

 

[lngbeard]

I would suggest reading "In the gravest extreme" by Massad F. Ayoob. Former special forces, LEO and trainer of LEO. One of the worlds most knowledgeable arms experts. This book will open your eyes to the reality of when lethal force is justified and the legal ramification of said use. It is a extremely fine line when lethal force is acceptable. In all other cases, you will be the one mired in the legal system and it will cost you thousands to get yourself out of it. BTW, I have concealed carry and have home defense shot gun by the bed. Since reading the book my thought about the use of my weapons has been adjusted severely.

 

[RTK]

I would suggest reading "In the gravest extreme" by Massad F. Ayoob. Former special forces, LEO and trainer of LEO. One of the worlds most knowledgeable arms experts. This book will open your eyes to the reality of when lethal force is justified and the legal ramification of said use. It is a extremely fine line when lethal force is acceptable. In all other cases, you will be the one mired in the legal system and it will cost you thousands to get yourself out of it. BTW, I have concealed carry and have home defense shot gun by the bed. Since reading the book my thought about the use of my weapons has been adjusted severely.

Ayoob does have some good books to read.
I would imagine using lethal force and getting tangled in the web of legalities varies greatly in the location. Outside of the house is one thing, inside is another...............or at least according to lawyers I know.