Table Saw Question

[smokechase II]

Perhaps the wrong forum.

Anyone familiar with this saw?

http://www.sawstop.com/

I wonder about false shut offs.
I sure like the basic idea.

 

[oldsaw]

Uses a sacrificial brake to stop the blade. Seen the demo with the hotdog on video, they show the brake afterwards. Molten aluminum.

Guess it works.

Mark

 

[sawyerDave]

Sawstop

Its a good idea, but like all good ideas, at first there are naysayers. I have seen demo's, they take a hot dog, hold one end in their hand, and just touch the blade, and WHAM! Its stopped! I think its about a hundred or two for the brake cartridge, plus a ruined blade, but how much is a finger or two worth, anyway? No, I don't have one or sell them, but am thinking of getting one in a couple of years, want to see if the 5 grand price comes down. If I had employees, or liability issues, like a school, I'd be on it like white on rice! I think you might be able to get an insurance discount, if you have one, but that last might be a rumor, I don't know.

 

[BobL]

This has been discussed ad nauseum in many forums on the web. The debate ranges from the way the patent owners attempted (and failed) to make the stopping device mandatory on all table saws in the USA and how many saw accidents it will actually stop, and how good the saw is for the (expensive) price

There is no question it is a well built saw and that it mostly works, but like chain brakes haven't stopped all CS accidents it won't stop all accidents on a table saw. For example, if your hand is moving too quickly into the saw you will still cut yourself but probably not cut your hand off. The stopping mechanism may trigger in really green wood (so this rules out using the mechanism in chainsaws) so the mechanism has to be turned off if the wood is too green. Nor will it change other table saw characteristics eg kick back problems. There is also what I call the classic "air bag" problem - drivers thinking they can drive like idiots because their car has air bags increased the accident rate.

If the saw stop mechanisn is triggered you have to replace the cartridge and the blade. How often it triggers when it doesn't need to is unknown.

It is well engineered - it has to be - bigger bearings and supports are needed to stop the blade and not destroy the saw. Will it make you a better wood worker - only in as much as bigger chainsaw maker you a better miller?

Would I buy one? I only use a Table Saw for a few minutes a week, so for me it's not worth it. If I was using Table saw on a more regular basis I would consider it but for as much as it is a quality saw as its stopping mechanism.

 

[KindlingKing]

Perhaps the wrong forum.

Anyone familiar with this saw?

http://www.sawstop.com/

I wonder about false shut offs.
I sure like the basic idea.

Read a few articles and it seems to be very well received. I have Jet's cabinet saw and love it. If this had been on the market when I bought my cabinet saw, I'd probably have gotten it (If I could have afforded it). It has a very nice riving knife set-up which I've always wished my saw had. Have to say I've had no close calls with the saw so far but I respect the heck out of it. I have several friends who have lost fingers or tips of fingers working on their saws. All were more experienced than me and the unanimous comment was: "Da*n, I knew better..."

 

[zopi]

There is also what I call the classic "air bag" problem - drivers thinking they can drive like idiots because their car has air bags increased the accident rate.

DING! you win..

I pretty much prefer my healthy paranoia around sharp things moving fast..I am scared of that blade, and if i ever get not scared of it, I will quit using it..

I do think it might be just the thing in schools, etc....they never would let us touch the tablesaw..but did a great kickback demo..hence my fears..I may very well owe old Ben Tar a finger or two...

 

[big daddio]

saw that video and thought the same thing as bobl, the green lumber thing. don't think the average joe like me could afford the high tech, hope they don't force it on us like the airbag thang. nothin' scares me worse than somebody that's never used a tablesaw gettin' ahold of one. i might have a beer or two runnin' my woodmizer but a tablesaws a different animal.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I bought my first table saw in the 70's... Today i have two Unisaws and a Huss. AND i also have all of my fingers and both thumbs...

I'm thinking common sense is what you need, and if your lacking that, NO table saw will save you!

Rob

 

[Neubauer6]

I checked one out today for the first time. It looks interesting but I still have my doubts. It would probably take something like a small electrical short and OOPS...there goes the 'ol meatpaw!

 

[glennschumann]

I once introduced a friend to wood working... and he loves it. One day he called me to tell me he was on his way to the emergency room with a shorter thumb. Maybe this device would have prevented some damage.

I once had an accident too.. a nasty kickback that caused me to black out momentarily. I also got a deep 'scratch' on my thumb. It would have been much worse.

Accidents do happen.

Now that I'm a bit older... I would be inclined to give serious consideration to this saw... if I was in the market for one... or if I was teaching kids / grandkids how to use the tool. Maybe it is because we have piano players in the family.

I do know people who get by just fine in this world with fewer than 10 fingers too... it depends on how much you value your fingers... or if you need them to count.

I imagine that it will become standard on saws that get purchased for school shops, then on high end saws... and on down the line through the years.

I think it is a good idea... but it is lost in price, and availability. If it cost and extra $10, I'm guessing most everybody would be getting it... it is just a matter of price vs. priority.

 

[stonykill]

DING! you win..

I pretty much prefer my healthy paranoia around sharp things moving fast..I am scared of that blade, and if i ever get not scared of it, I will quit using it..
.

well hopefully scared isn't the correct term. I have a healthy RESPECT for my table saw. Common sense, a push stick, easy access stop button, common sense, and respect for your fingers or life (Imagine a long board kicking back, hitting you in the gut, and you fall on the spinning blade, you will be dead)
are all helpful. If you are truely scared of it, you shouldn't be using it cause you will get hurt

 

[MikeInParadise]

I think it is a good idea.

I too was annoyed by the inventor trying to get it mandated and shoved down people's throats. I was on the list for availability before he did that and once he did that I had my name taken off.

Still anything that increases safety in the shop is a good thing. There is a bypass switch on it for cutting green wood.

It is pretty pricey but sure is a lot cheaper than a new finger. I would consider one if I ever have to buy a new saw but hopefully my Unisaw will outlive me!

If I had any type of commercial business with employees I would have one in a flash.

 

[zopi]

well hopefully scared isn't the correct term. I have a healthy RESPECT for my table saw. Common sense, a push stick, easy access stop button, common sense, and respect for your fingers or life (Imagine a long board kicking back, hitting you in the gut, and you fall on the spinning blade, you will be dead)
are all helpful. If you are truely scared of it, you shouldn't be using it cause you will get hurt

Maybe...i'm not scared to use the equipment, i'm scared of the fast moving sharp bits...same philosophy I apply to riding a motorcycle..not scared of the
bike...scared of what it can do to me...

not an unreasoned panic, just a healthy dose of not liking pain very much..

hadda 1.5" splinter took out of my butt yesterday..12 stitches...calculated as
0.0225 bdft of lumber in my butt...vicodin is beautiful thing.

A table saw kick back like you describe is what killed johnny cash's brother..

 

[Marklambert61]

Great saw and good idea

I love this saw but its too costly for me....


Mark

 

[stonykill]

A table saw kick back like you describe is what killed johnny cash's brother..

yes it is.

When I was a kid, there was an old guy in town, all hunched over. Not a hunchback, but bent over. He was the local garbage man. Couldn't stand up straight.

I asked my grandfather whay he was like that. It was a kickback from one of those tractor mounted buzz saws. It kicked and hit him in the gut so hard that he had massive internal injurys and it damaged his spine. Between that image, and my grandfathers 4 short fingers, I early on developed safety standards for myself. Before it was the "thing to do".

I like all my body parts. I plan on being cremated, all parts intact. Untill the 1200 degree fire ......

 

[zopi]

I like all my body parts. I plan on being cremated, all parts intact. Untill the 1200 degree fire ......

I want to be in the BBQ sauce at the wake.....

YUK!


I grew up around seed cleaners, cotton gins and drilling rigs...seen alot of good men crippled up...

 

[buicken]

The hartford art school has one. It has been triggered twice,
once it saved a student from getting cut badly. once by a student who wanted to "try" the brake system.
Both times cost a lot of money to replace the blade and mechanism.
with the old tablesaw, most students were not allowed to use it. The few that could, and the shop guy, were constantly asked to cut something for someone.
they got it after i stopped working there, but i hear it is accurate and has good power.
My home saw is a 1908 yates american, with a 3 hp motor.
the table tilts, not the motor, super accurate and insanely heavy.

 

[sawyerDave]

Wow what a hornet's nest!

I had no idea that the guy who invented this is trying to shove it down everyone's throat. I still think its a good idea, kinda like seatbelts, I think the choice should be that of the person who is operating the saw. I also did not know that so many used a table saw to cut green wood. From the few times I have tried it, I' d rather let it dry out a little, it kinda acts like reaction wood when you try to cut it green, seems to me that no matter how you orient it, it either wants to close up, or open wide. Anyway I hope everyone keeps all of their fingers, lest we have a surfeit of high school shop teachers!

 

[woodshop]

This has been discussed ad nauseum in many forums on the web. The debate ranges from the way the patent owners attempted (and failed) to make the stopping device mandatory on all table saws in the USA and how many saw accidents it will actually stop, and how good the saw is for the (expensive) price

There is no question it is a well built saw and that it mostly works, but like chain brakes haven't stopped all CS accidents it won't stop all accidents on a table saw. For example, if your hand is moving too quickly into the saw you will still cut yourself but probably not cut your hand off. The stopping mechanism may trigger in really green wood (so this rules out using the mechanism in chainsaws) so the mechanism has to be turned off if the wood is too green. Nor will it change other table saw characteristics eg kick back problems. There is also what I call the classic "air bag" problem - drivers thinking they can drive like idiots because their car has air bags increased the accident rate.

If the saw stop mechanisn is triggered you have to replace the cartridge and the blade. How often it triggers when it doesn't need to is unknown.

It is well engineered - it has to be - bigger bearings and supports are needed to stop the blade and not destroy the saw. Will it make you a better wood worker - only in as much as bigger chainsaw maker you a better miller?

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Sawstop. My Unisaw knockoff has served me flawlessly for 10 years, and I have no need (or room) for a second cabinet style table saw. I looked into the Sawstop out of curiosity... they are more expensive but less than a grand more than a comparable regular saw. Almost all reviews talk about how well engineered and powerful the saw is, so they got that part right. I have to admit though, that if I did have one, every time I used the thing I think I'd be thinking how much I would instantly be spending (for no gain even) if I hit some moist or wet wood. A cartridge plus my Woodworker II... ouch. As for losing a finger... I agree with those on here that have a healthy respect for equipment and that respect keeps them out of trouble. EVERY SINGLE TIME I push a piece of wood through my table saw I'm thinking of the danger end of it, and acting accordingly. That's a mindset I've had for years.

 

[infomet]

Price is under $3K now and I think they have a contractor style out too...look at their site! I have two hobby woodworker friends with basically ruined hands. Both were minor blade contacts that resulted a good part of the hand being sucked through the slot by the blade and thoroughly mangled, probably cost $50K each for repairs and they still can't do much!

I'm thinking seriously and have the OK from SWMBO.

Part of the lesson here is to use a zero clearance insert....would have saved much of the damage to the friends.