Teach me about sprockets

[Thachman]

As a newbie to CAD, I'm confused about sprockets. I understand the differences and pros/cons between spur and rim types, but I'm wondering if there is some standardization among sprocket sizes?

For example, I need to put a new sprocket on a used CS-590 I picked up. It currently has a 3/8 7-tooth spur sprocket. Will any aftermarket 3/8 7-tooth sprocket work on my saw, or do I have to get one made for Echo, and even for my particular model. Same question for rim sprocket...I know the CS-600p drum and rim will fit the 590, but will any 3/8 7-tooth drum and rim sprocket assembly fit?

Seems like aftermarket (Oregon, Carlson, others) are available at a fraction the cost of Echo factory parts...hence my question. Hope this makes sense. Thanks for any clarification!

 

[295 tramp]

The clutch drum spline is mostly standardized.
You will have a small or large spline on the drum
Where the rim goes.

 

[Thachman]

Gotcha, I think. Anyone happen to know if the 590 requires the small or large spline? I'm wanting to put a rim sprocket on this thing, but don't want to spend the $65+ on the OEM parts.

 

[Chris-PA]

The design of the clutch drum is specific to a particular model (although it may be shared with others), and it may contain provisions for driving the oil pump, etc. If it is intended for use with a rim drive, then there are a couple of spline patterns that will mount standard rims.

 

[Franny K]

[QUOTE="Thachman, post: 5253586, member: 130653" Thanks for any clarification![/QUOTE]
It is Carlton not Carlson I am not aware they market sprockets at least lately.
A 60cc saw would (in this case it seems I need to insert the word usually) take the small spline the larger one is more often called standard though I suspect they sell less of them.
I tried the Oregon site (600p as you stated) and they only offer the rim drive sprocket not a splined drum or kit, at least programed into their part finder system.
Like Philip says if it has an outboard clutch you need to get the clutch off and get an oil drive piece. If the saw has the oil pump on the starter side it won't stop oiling at idle but simplifies stuff like this.
I have mentioned before folks comparing the price of the 590 with others that they should compare it upgraded to a rim drive.

 

[jughead500]

For your saw you will have to get the cs600 drum to be able to fit a rim sprocket.it will be the standard large spline.yeap the clutch drum is pretty expensive.the sprocket is too thru echo but any large spline stihl,oregon,etc. Large spline sprocket will work.i have an 8pin stihl on my 600p

 

[Saw'Fiend]

For your saw you will have to get the cs600 drum to be able to fit a rim sprocket.it will be the standard large spline.yeap the clutch drum is pretty expensive.the sprocket is too thru echo but any large spline stihl,oregon,etc. Large spline sprocket will work.i have an 8pin stihl on my 600p

Yup Oregon doesn't seem to make a powermate clutch drum with spline for echo cs600p or 590. Glad my OEM one is still in good shape for now.
Echo makes decent saws the lack of aftermarket parts can really Nickel and Dime you buy having to buy OEM!
Been there done that...

 

[Franny K]

Standard 7 spline, that means only 9 tooth available for 0.325 pitch chain? To me that would be minus. To push the limits I would want to be able to run 7 teeth and skip 0.325 chain.

 

[Thachman]

Yup Oregon doesn't seem to make a powermate clutch drum with spline for echo cs600p or 590. Glad my OEM one is still in good shape for now.
Echo makes decent saws the lack of aftermarket parts can really Nickel and Dime you buy having to buy OEM!
Been there done that...

Yeah, I love the saws but Echo parts are ridiculously priced. Definitely a chink in the armor.

 

[Philbert]

. . . Oregon doesn't seem to make a powermate clutch drum with spline for echo . . .

I have wondered about this. Does not appear to make sense, unless they have some special, non-compete clause with Echo?

Anyway, below is some good info on Oregon sprockets. Remember, that in addition to the 'small' and 'standard' rim sprockets, there is also a smaller STIHL sprocket (no Oregon version) often referred to as a 'mini'. And, older, gear drive, and electric saws may have different sprockets than those shown below.

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/sprockets/pro_main_sprockets.htm

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/sprockets/SpurSprocktFB0601.pdf

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/sprockets/RimSproxFB0601.pdf


Philbert

 

[Saw'Fiend]

I have wondered about this. Does not appear to make sense, unless they have some special, non-compete clause with Echo?

Anyway, below is some good info on Oregon sprockets. Remember, that in addition to the 'small' and 'standard' rim sprockets, there is also a smaller STIHL sprocket (no Oregon version) often referred to as a 'mini'. And, older, gear drive, and electric saws may have different sprockets than those shown below.

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/sprockets/pro_main_sprockets.htm

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/sprockets/SpurSprocktFB0601.pdf

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/sprockets/RimSproxFB0601.pdf


Philbert

Not sure if its a non compete thing, they do make drum conversions for other echo saws .
Mostly older ones that I noticed. Good thing about the 600p is that its already comes set up with the rim sprocket spline, so as jug stated you can just use a stihl standard size stihl sprocket on it. I'm guessing cause they figured putting a spur on the 590 they would get people wanting to upgrade it lol, hence more money, hence why they sell a lower priced saw, damn you echo...

 

[Chris-PA]

To push the limits I would want to be able to run 7 teeth and skip 0.325 chain.

So you would reduce the sprocket diameter (chain speed) by 22%, and then cut the cutters per inch by 50%?

I'm guessing cause they figured putting a spur on the 590 they would get people wanting to upgrade it

Why not just run the spur until it wears out? I only have one saw with a rim drive at this point and I can't tell any difference when it's running.

 

[Saw'Fiend]

So you would reduce the sprocket diameter (chain speed) by 22%, and then cut the cutters per inch by 50%?


Why not just run the spur until it wears out? I only have one saw with a rim drive at this point and I can't tell any difference when it's running.

No by all means wear it out , I just prefer rim sprockets there's less slop in it and definitely cheaper when it does come time to replace, plus more options if you ever do wanna run different chain sizes , which for alot of us that is the case.

 

[LegDeLimber]

If you really want the rim job bad enough.
I made this to run on an older poulan 46cc.
Somewhat pre-internet era and No one ( locally) said they could obtain one.
So I just decided to work with the tools and parts that I had.

Yeah, i do some low budget stuff at times.
I'm Sorta stuck in that category. {sigh}
But hey, I look at the needs of the tool or part
and do some mental calculations (wild assed, yet cynical)
and, ...most,.... times they work pretty darned well.

 

[Philbert]

I made this to run on an older poulan 46cc.

That's thinking outside the box!

Some of the guys with machining skills on this site could probably also make a conversion sprocket (not me!).

Philbert

 

[Franny K]

Franny K said: ↑
To push the limits I would want to be able to run 7 teeth and skip 0.325 chain.

So you would reduce the sprocket diameter (chain speed) by 22%, and then cut the cutters per inch by 50%?


Why not just run the spur until it wears out? I only have one saw with a rim drive at this point and I can't tell any difference when it's running.

Not the way I see it going from 7 tooth 3/8 to 7 tooth .325 is a reduction of .367 to .325 the nine tooth business is because a standard spline .325 sprocket is nine teeth. The skip tooth business gets you half the cutters going past any given point. I guess .325 isn't popular around here for 60cc but it is within the design parameters.

If you have had the chain come off and mess up the drive links with no spare or means to repair in your pocket or close and had to walk a good distance this view could change. I don't have much choice but put a spare pole saw loop in a pocket but a normal chainsaw you have the rim sprocket choice.

 

[LegDeLimber]

The lighting makes that sprocket look loose, but trust me, it's not.
It fits as snug, (on every slot) a regular rim hub.
Took a fair bit of test fitting and massaging till it fit like I wanted it to.
You'll notice all the old tooth remnants are cut in the same shape and from the same direction.
Plus my my eyes were a heck of a lot better when I made that.
I could freehand sharpen and split point/thin the webs on a 3/16 drill bit easily.
on a good day, I could get under 1/8 and make it look like a nice factory grind.
Pulled a chip from both sides that looked even, and didn't drill oversized or tapered holes.
but that's all gone now (monocular diplopia, -- per eye no less)