The EPA/gasifier OWB Thread

[johnnylabguy]

It gets talked about here some but I want to hear from all the guys using the newer gasifier outdoor woodburners. Hearth has some info, but theres a lot of sway towards the indoor units and I'm sorry that just won't work for my application. Even if you've posted before I want to hear updates because these units are so new. So if you've got an E-classic, Econoburn, Empyre or whatever I'd like to hear how its going!

My thinking is that if I'm going to soak 10 grand+ into a new set-up I'd really like to give the gasifiers a chance. I'm interested in less smoke and more efficiency. I can store 9-10 cords under a roof and I like my wood seasoned so thats a little less of an issue. However it still gets damp and I'd really like to hear how even wet seasoned wood burns in these units.
- Does surface moisture cause and issue?
- How seasoned is the wood your burning? Moisture content? seasoning length?
- How much less do you use if you've burned in a traditional OWB before and do you notice less smoke?
- How's the reliability thus far?
- Burn times and amount of wood used per year for you're set up?

I'd love to get feedback from those that have had a conventional OWB and can compare it to their new unit too.

As much as we don't like it the industry and government is leaning this way so any feedback we can get is good for us all.

 

[hoogie]

i'm in my second season with an empyer pro200. I love it, and i didnt pay 10 grand for mine. mine was right at 8500 alittle over 2000 more then empyers regular owb. but at the time i bought it the tax credit was there so by the time i got my refund on my taxes that brought the price of the owb down under what the regular burner was. Once again i cant say it enough I love it...do your homework and research what unit is right for you. At the time that i was buying one really the only other unit being used that i could get feedback from was the eseries from CB. I didnt like all the problems that they were having, hence choosing profab. My neighbor has a regular unit from empyer and I've watched his for the past 3yrs. and he has never had a problem with the unit. and the service was great. So i chatted with the empyer dealer in our area and choose to run with them. As for the owb, theres not much to it to go wrong. Ya gotta keep it cleaner than a regular owb. Which for me only takes about 10 mins. a week or there abouts. On the empyer there are no moving parts to worry about, except for the flapper just off the blower motor. that was a big plus. As for burn times i can get an easy 12hr. time in the coldest of temps. As for wood usage i burn 6-7 cords a year heating a 2100sq. foot house temps inside at 75. and thats also heating dhw.
As for the types of wood i burn in the spring and fall i tend to toss in dry pine, and in the colder months good dry hardwood. As for my wood stock its been drying for over a 1.5yrs stacked outside in the elements, and the owb burns just fine if the wood is tossed in with snow on it or if its been raining. granted i knock most the snow off but thats a givin. For the first yr. I only had 6-8 months of drying time not great but it still burned well, the unit has a blower on it so problems there. Granted this year is a different story though with good seasoned wood i'm getting a much longer burn time. Check my other posts on here and that will give you a lot of info also, i've got pics of my install and somewhat of a log on some of the troubles and stuff that i occurred during my first season of burning...Hope that helps ya...Oh and if you wanna know anymore just pm or call thanks Hoogie....

 

[cnice_37]

bump b/c I'm curious to responses.

Anyone know how a gasifier would work with forced hot water/ oil heat? Separate heat exchanger & pump and a lot of crap in between?

 

[psbrittain]

I have a new P&M that has been in service for about 6 weeks. Burning mostly seasoned locust that is about 15% moisture. I am catching up to and over 1/2 gallon of condensate per day with the single digit temperatures this month.
High humidity seems to increase the condensate. Capturing that latent heat seems to indicate a higher efficiency. I should have installed a drain pipe in the slab, that would be better than dumping a catch can daily.

 

[WiscoNeil]

I have a new P&M that has been in service for about 6 weeks. Burning mostly seasoned locust that is about 15% moisture. I am catching up to and over 1/2 gallon of condensate per day with the single digit temperatures this month.

Where is the condensate coming from on the OWB? In general how do you like the P&M?

 

[WiscoNeil]

Hoogie,

How did you decide on a pro200? The dealer I talked to said I could probably get by with a pro100 and my house is 2400sqft and not well insulated. One thing I liked about the P&M is all of the scotch marine tubing which I saw a little of in a YouTube video of a Greenwood/Empyre/ProFab. Do you know an average stack temp on the ProFab?

Also, is there a list anywhere of the ACTUAL temps for the secondary burn chambers on the various gasification units? It would seem to me that not all wood/seasoning/OWB combinations are going to result in 2000 degree temps (as many manufacturers indicate). As a result, a particular stack temp might be good or bad. If the stack is 300 degrees and it started at 2000 that's great; if it started at 1500 degrees that might be great but it's not as great. Know-waa-mean?

 

[psbrittain]

The condensate is coming from the stainless steel damper box the fan blows up into. I drilled a hole in the bottom to install the drain. I get some ice buildup on the chimney cap as well.
My biggest problem is inconsistent load making it a hassle to keep the fire going. I have a radiant floor and a southern exposure, a cold windy night followed by a sunny day puts me over setpoint inside with a combination of passive solar gain and the heat stored in the floor.
I need to add a fancoil in my basement for a load during the day.
It would be nice to have a low limit in addition to the high limit to lock out the fan if it drops too low below boiler setpoint.
Another problem is the consistent questioning at work about how much wood I am burning from coworkers with conventional OWB's. Time will tell as I work out the bugs.

 

[johnnylabguy]

i'm in my second season with an empyer pro200. I love it, and i didnt pay 10 grand for mine. mine was right at 8500 alittle over 2000 more then empyers regular owb. but at the time i bought it the tax credit was there so by the time i got my refund on my taxes that brought the price of the owb down under what the regular burner was. Once again i cant say it enough I love it...do your homework and research what unit is right for you. At the time that i was buying one really the only other unit being used that i could get feedback from was the eseries from CB. I didnt like all the problems that they were having, hence choosing profab. My neighbor has a regular unit from empyer and I've watched his for the past 3yrs. and he has never had a problem with the unit. and the service was great. So i chatted with the empyer dealer in our area and choose to run with them. As for the owb, theres not much to it to go wrong. Ya gotta keep it cleaner than a regular owb. Which for me only takes about 10 mins. a week or there abouts. On the empyer there are no moving parts to worry about, except for the flapper just off the blower motor. that was a big plus. As for burn times i can get an easy 12hr. time in the coldest of temps. As for wood usage i burn 6-7 cords a year heating a 2100sq. foot house temps inside at 75. and thats also heating dhw.
As for the types of wood i burn in the spring and fall i tend to toss in dry pine, and in the colder months good dry hardwood. As for my wood stock its been drying for over a 1.5yrs stacked outside in the elements, and the owb burns just fine if the wood is tossed in with snow on it or if its been raining. granted i knock most the snow off but thats a givin. For the first yr. I only had 6-8 months of drying time not great but it still burned well, the unit has a blower on it so problems there. Granted this year is a different story though with good seasoned wood i'm getting a much longer burn time. Check my other posts on here and that will give you a lot of info also, i've got pics of my install and somewhat of a log on some of the troubles and stuff that i occurred during my first season of burning...Hope that helps ya...Oh and if you wanna know anymore just pm or call thanks Hoogie....

Thanks Hoog. That's the type of info I'm looking for! I'd like to find a local dealer to check one of these out. I'll have to do some searching.

The Portage and Maine looks interesting too. Liked the vid on their site. Although there was an electrical whine in the background the whole time. Hope that wasn't the unit making that buzz. Doubt it but ?

 

[johnnylabguy]

Another problem is the consistent questioning at work about how much wood I am burning from coworkers with conventional OWB's. Time will tell as I work out the bugs.

Now that's a different problem!:hmm3grin2orange:
Lots of curiosity with these new units too!

 

[psbrittain]

Thanks Hoog. That's the type of info I'm looking for! I'd like to find a local dealer to check one of these out. I'll have to do some searching.

The Portage and Maine looks interesting too. Liked the vid on their site. Although there was an electrical whine in the background the whole time. Hope that wasn't the unit making that buzz. Doubt it but ?

There is a whine from the FD fan but it isn't too loud.

 

[BPS. LLC]

Good thread idea. I'm curious who makes the most reliable unit, lowest maintenance unit.

 

[superwd6]

E-Classic 2300 here. If I lived in the middle of nowhere I would have got a standard unit but with neighbors on both sides & all of us on 1 acre lots my choice was clear. On my second winter & still loving this unit. Heated my pool for a month before the people on second lots over from me found out I had it. Does that tell you how clean it burns? It has a learning curve as to how to split ,load and clean it but well worth it in the long run. How much wood ? I don't know, House is always hot, lots of hot water, hot tub heated this year now to:biggrinbounce2:. I also looked @ the Empire but found better dealer for Central boiler . I'm a heating man, started in 1990, Have Gas, oil & full refrigeration licence.I service heating & A/C equipment every day & to me the E-Classic was the best built unit I looked at. I do beleive this unit burns less than a regular boiler but is hard to compare. Ask yourself when the real estate listing for a home liists heating costs @ $1000 , is that @ 75*f or 64*f. My house stays @ 75 & up(wife says her ankles swell but it's my plan for getting her naked)

 

[johnnylabguy]

Thanks superwd6. I'd honestly like to go with Central Boiler as my local dealer is also a family friend that I can trust. Its just that theirs wasn't the best gasifier set-up intially. I certainly think they're one of the best with the regular OWB. I hope they've made the right adjustments as I know they've been working at it. Its good to hear you're happy with yours.

-When did you install yours and how long have you used it?
-How seasoned is the wood you burn and do you have to keep it out of the elements even if its seasoned to avoid smoking/creosote?
-What did you think of the empyre unit as far as build quality and other hardware? I'm interested in them but the lack of local dealer/info has me concerned. Still researching. I like that thus far it seems like a fairly simple setup thats easy to maintain though.

Thanks for the info again and feel free to post even simple observations here often as I've found theres a lack of info on here about daily use of some of these yet.

P.S. As I type this my fuel oil furnace just kicked on to keep my house at 70 degrees even though my Hotblast 1557 is pumping out heat to my 2800 sq ft house and basement I'm heating. To be fair, it is only 2 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT AND WINDY on my thermometer tonight! Time to "feed the beast" again! I need an OWB!

 

[jd6030]

Going on third season with eclassic here, I have multiple neighbors near me and no complaints and when it is up and going it burns cleaner than indoor stoves in the area. I cut my wood at 20 inch length and load so the ends of the pieces are against the sides not with ends pointed towards front to back and bridging problems no longer happens. I used 8 cords last year in a 1900 square feet house that is drafty and that was in 6 month period.

 

[hoogie]

Hoogie,

How did you decide on a pro200? The dealer I talked to said I could probably get by with a pro100 and my house is 2400sqft and not well insulated. One thing I liked about the P&M is all of the scotch marine tubing which I saw a little of in a YouTube video of a Greenwood/Empyre/ProFab. Do you know an average stack temp on the ProFab?

Also, is there a list anywhere of the ACTUAL temps for the secondary burn chambers on the various gasification units? It would seem to me that not all wood/seasoning/OWB combinations are going to result in 2000 degree temps (as many manufacturers indicate). As a result, a particular stack temp might be good or bad. If the stack is 300 degrees and it started at 2000 that's great; if it started at 1500 degrees that might be great but it's not as great. Know-waa-mean?

My house was built in 1923, just before i bought it blowin in insulation was done to the walls and also in the attic so no worries there pretty well insulated now. But my garage is another 2000sq thats attached to the house. I have an hx out in there now that i'm not happy with it's running about 200,000btu but i got it for free, and not to mention that the garage is not insulated at the moment. So when i get around to it I plan on putting 2 60,000btu in the garage one on each end facing each other. So hence I'll be heating 4,000sq which is right up the pro200's alley, i was just looking to the future and what i wanted to do with the house. As for stack temp. looking right around 300 degrees, gasser chamber not really sure i'll temp gun it tonight and see for myself. One thing is for sure it must be getting up to the required temp to perform the gassification because there is no smoke in full burn...

 

[WiscoNeil]

But my garage is another 2000sq thats attached to the house.

That'll do it. Yep yep yep.

Some real world data would be interesting and appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[superwd6]

Installed Aug of 2009, Did replace Fusion combustor and door under warranty with newly designed parts. Seems they have came quite a ways from the models before mine. Mine is a wood only without the firestar computer.My wood is cut and piled by June and start burnuing it in Jan. Always have some left over from the year before . Your wood needs to be dry just like an indoor stove, mine gets a tarp. You can burn wetter wood but it uses a lot more to do the same job, all the moisture has to be boiled off first.
I didn't like the loose insulation or the horizontal tubes of the secondary heat exchanger on the Empyre. My salesman showed me how easy it was to clean---looked liked cleaning an old oil boiler to me & we've had issues with horazontal tubes rotting out boilers early vs vertical tubes.
I used to think why would you want to stand in the cold outside when an indoor stove was better. I was so wrong, a sweet wood fire looks like clear heat waves on the warm day & white steam on the cold days. And when I drag my a$$ out of bet late my house is still warm