The most efficent way to buck logs for firewood production.

[KiwiBro]

The Chomper with the winch and the 0-4-8 way head would work very well for shearing logs to length and they will dry quicky.

If those logs are just 5" DBH, can it feed three at a time? My understanding is it can only feed one log at a time.

How much deviation from straight can it work with? What if a log is not straight - will notching work?

What about heavy logs acting as the tail wagging the dog when trying to use the arms to line it up to the feed ramp?

It seems to move around so much it runs the risk of dropping splits off the edges of the conveyor hopper rather than into the hopper?

Why not an endless winch rather than be restricted to a finite cable/rope length or having to use connectors?

What if customers need a max split width of 6" - how does the wedge handle that?

If a log tapers above the max capacity of the chomper, how does one reverse it out if it jams and what happens if it does so while the operator is at the log pile hitching another log to the winch?

Is the shear blade really a no-maintenance item that doesn't need sharpening? if not, is it easy enough to remove and sharpen oneself?

Why not a knuckleboom/grapple in addition to the winch so that it can be parked close to the log pile and do away with shagging around with the winch cable and guide arms?

Real users have indicated production of around a cord per hour in real use. I'm not sure it's worth the $ being asked for it at that sort or production rate, but am certainly open to persuasion.

 

[indiansprings]

For a processor a cord an hour seems slow. We have timed ourselves several times, we cut, split and stack a cord on the truck averaging about 64 minutes a cord with the crew we have know. Depending on the size and type of wood it can be faster. With hired help only running 8.00 an hour it would take a while to justify a processor. I think I could out produce a small processor with a super split with the crew we have now and I don't have all the cash tied up in a piece of equipment that might be hard to sell if I decide to shut down.

 

[SPDRMNKY]

specific thoughts now that it's late here

I guess a cutoff saw for bucking small stuff sounds like a "one-task" tool...and I try to have as few of those as possible...maybe up your power and shorten the bar for bucking...I have found that a saw buck is only faster if there are two people working...otherwise just cut on the ground...an array of long timbers/4x4's laid parallel at 16" apart would be a great landing for bucking small stuff

that super split is something that's finally as fast as a maul, and saves the operator energy!

a central location is really the only thing that makes sense when you get beyond a one-man-show

that's it...I'm done...I like your discussion here, but feel like we could all benefit from more information about your operation/planned operation...size, investment, primary or secondary income, etc....I get the impression you're right on the edge of making a significant investment?

cheers!

 

[KiwiBro]

I guess a cutoff saw for bucking small stuff sounds like a "one-task" tool...and I try to have as few of those as possible

I largely agree but with the exception to that rule being when the volume and return can justify the single-task tool.

that super split is something that's finally as fast as a maul, and saves the operator energy!

I keep reading good things about that splitter. I've never read an owner who's not happy with it, but have read a few who find it's still quite a bit of work man-handling the bigger stuff. At least it can do bigger stuff - it seems like anything that one can get on the table it will split, even if it is quite some work moving those big beasts around until they finally yield and start falling apart. Fast cycle time, but looks a little flimsy - but there are plenty around that just keep on splitting and have done for many, many years so looks could be deceiving.

If not going the firewood processor route, then one still needs to feed a splitter rounds and I'm yet to settle on the optimal way of doing that.

a central location is really the only thing that makes sense when you get beyond a one-man-show

I've been pondering this point for quite some time. A yard near customers seems to make more sense than a yard near forests, when there is often quite a distance between the two, I am thinking. One truck and trailer loads of logs has to come further to the yard, but it means for every one trip there are hundreds of miles saved in smaller firewood delivery distances to customers, and it opens up the options of local customers using their own or loaning trailers if they want better prices. But then rent is dearer and commercial activities more restricted and operating hours and council demands more restrictive too. Most site with any log volumes have enough room for a portable processor to be set-up on the site/landing after the main harvesting operation has left, but any decent processor will need quite a large area for log storage to reach it's production potential day in and day out, not to mention storage area for the split wood (not many forestry companies want that hazard lying around in their forests if they can avoid it) so there's need to be somewhere for the split wood to go to and that brings us back to the central yard idea again.

I get the impression you're right on the edge of making a significant investment?

Edging my way closer to the precipice ;-) I've about another 6 months self-imposed cooling off/learning period before I either walk or flick the switch on what will for me be some serious investment. Plenty of things to learn still about optimising 1 & 2-person smaller operations before I'm fully convinced it's not profitable enough. also, plenty to learn about best markets and keeping a processor fed and ensuring buyers for the product to keep a processor earning it's keep.

 

[v8r]

for personal firewood, i cut (buck) and split onsite.. that way i only have to load it up on my ute, then unload it once onto my woodpile..
they say wood warms you up three times.. once when you cut it, once when you split it and once when you burn it. thats enough for me

 

[mooseracing]

As it was mentioned before, buzz saw is my fastest tool. Only problem is other people around it.

 

[Misfit138]

Well, sure, use a saw buck then..

Heh. Where I'm from, a sawbuck is a $10 bill. :msp_biggrin:

Also, according to TMFARM's reckoning, I would be a type 1 or 2 depending on my source of wood.

 

[Wood Doctor]

A Bit Confused...

If I was in the firewood business I'd definitely invest in a Super Split.

Super Spits don't buzz cut or buck logs. Right?

 

[zogger]

Heh. Where I'm from, a sawbuck is a $10 bill. :msp_biggrin:

Also, according to TMFARM's reckoning, I would be a type 1 or 2 depending on my source of wood.

--you are correct, if it is one word! And I have no idea how the slang term got invented.

With that said, the other fits, buck saw, saw buck, the saw to use on a buck...err....rats back to moolah..

too confuseth now...

then there's the franklin fireplace, because they originally costed one hundred smackers......errr..maybe not...

 

[TMFARM 2009]

ok, maybe i see a clarification here... are you asking about the old time buzz saws? i have one thats belt driven off the tractor pto... its dangerous to run and uses a lot more fuel running the tractor verses the chainsaw..and not much quicker either..it was good in its day but has now been superseded...
i hope that helps ya out for some info.. :msp_thumbsup:

 

[Circle B MN]

I keep reading good things about that splitter. I've never read an owner who's not happy with it, but have read a few who find it's still quite a bit of work man-handling the bigger stuff. At least it can do bigger stuff - it seems like anything that one can get on the table it will split, even if it is quite some work moving those big beasts around until they finally yield and start falling apart. Fast cycle time, but looks a little flimsy - but there are plenty around that just keep on splitting and have done for many, many years so looks could be deceiving.

Nothing flimsy about a SS. A lot of people have the idea of a big tank like hydraulic splitter being the only thing to split wood. This is incorrect. Perhaps the turf tires create the flimsy appearance.

I cut and split wood for sale. Most of it is 24" or less in diameter. Over 24" and I will noodle it to size comfortable to lift onto the table. Only takes a minute, perhaps less to do and saves the old back.

 

[gwiley]

Simple rule, touch the wood as few times as possible.

- F350 4x4
- 16' equipment trailer
- Bobcat skid steer
- a few saws
- Speeco splitter

When I am trying to be efficient I try to follow this process:

- trees are felled and cut to 10-16' lengths
- logs are loaded on equipment trailer with a skid steer
- logs are unloaded to staging area
- logs are distributed to stacking areas
- logs bucked right where they will be stacked
- splitter is moved to where the rounds are
- splits are placed on rails fresh off the wedge

Take some time to sit down with a cup of coffee and think through how you handle the wood. THink about how you can reduce the number of times you touch it between felling and stacking then start trying different approaches to reducing the # of touches.

 

[morewood]

:agree2:

I have a touch count. Some things you don't have any control over. Land owners wishes tops the list. I would prefer to do it all in one place but it just isn't practical. If I can give my only piece of advice that is followed it would be this, get the best equipment you can afford. Inferior equipment costs more in the long run.

Shea

 

[Streblerm]

Whether I am by myself or with a group we try to do the same. Try to get the wood home as quickly and efficiently as possible and then split and stack "at leisure" at home. We cut the pieces small enough to load and do most of the processing in the "yard" rather than the "field"

By myself this usually means a pickup and small trailer loaded by hand. I am usually scrounging city/suburban wood. I end up quartering the bigger stuff so I can move it by myself. With my cutting buddies it means dump truck, equipment trailer, and bobcat. Usually we are following the loggers cleaning up tree tops. The only real difference is the size of the cut pieces.

There is an appeal to processing the wood in the field. It leaves less mess at home and possibly cuts one touch out of the process. It just seems to take too long. I have personally dragged four+ cords home in one day. I think our record as a group was 30 dump and trailer loads in a weekend. There is no way we would have hauled that much completely processed wood in such a short time.

You gotta get that free wood while you can. The processing can come a little at a time - Later. Once the wood is in my yard, its mine.

 

[CJ1]

In the woods I cut to length and move either with a small 1 yard loader or load directly into a pickup and trailer. If I am cutting off of a delivered pile I'll roll 4-6 logs onto 2 logs laid lengthwise and cut the shots all at one time. That is where the 372/390 come in handy. As far as splitting I don't split for myself anymore, if I can lift it it gets burned. If it needs split I will do that before the final load is loaded for delivery on the landing. CJ

 

[KiwiBro]

Thanks for all the replies.
Yeah, that buzz saw - often run off tractor PTO's but there are stand-alone models too, is what I was meaning for small stuff. To my mind it's quicker and safer than a chainsaw...but...has anyone got a great idea how to buck the smaller diameter, less than straight logs faster than with a buzz saw?

Load 'em up on a log trailer and chainsaw plenty of them at a time using a saw powerful enough to handle the inevitable pinching as the logs move around as they are progressively bucked and the kinks are bucked out of them and they settle?

How else can one buck plenty of small, sometimes bent logs quickly?

 

[Kensterfly]

- trees are felled and cut to 10-16' lengths
- logs are loaded on equipment trailer with a skid steer
- logs are unloaded to staging area
- logs are distributed to stacking areas
- logs bucked right where they will be stacked
- splitter is moved to where the rounds are
- splits are placed on rails fresh off the wedge

GWiley, why drop at a staging area, then have to move them to the stacking area? That's an extra "touch." Why not just offload your trailer at the stacking area and split them there?

Unless you are bringing in a trailer with very different types of wood that you want to split and stack separately, I'm not seeing the point of the staging area.

Just curious.

Ken

 

[gwiley]

GWiley, why drop at a staging area, then have to move them to the stacking area? That's an extra "touch." Why not just offload your trailer at the stacking area and split them there?

Unless you are bringing in a trailer with very different types of wood that you want to split and stack separately, I'm not seeing the point of the staging area.

Just curious.

Ken

Good point - I have a twisty road from my driveway to the wood handling area that runs next to a few ravines that I can't navigate with my 44' rig.

If I could get the rig back there I would dump the logs right at the stacking sites and it would save a LOT of time.

We are working on widening the road - probably ought to be higher on the priority list, but until then I am stuck with that extra step.

 

[SPDRMNKY]

If not going the firewood processor route, then one still needs to feed a splitter rounds and I'm yet to settle on the optimal way of doing that.

Edging my way closer to the precipice ;-) I've about another 6 months self-imposed cooling off/learning period before I either walk or flick the switch on what will for me be some serious investment. Plenty of things to learn still about optimising 1 & 2-person smaller operations before I'm fully convinced it's not profitable enough. also, plenty to learn about best markets and keeping a processor fed and ensuring buyers for the product to keep a processor earning it's keep.

Yeah, that buzz saw - often run off tractor PTO's but there are stand-alone models too, is what I was meaning for small stuff.

How else can one buck plenty of small, sometimes bent logs quickly?

might as well throw multitek processors out on the table...it looks like their "tongs" feeder would work well for non-straight logs...that's what I'm saving up for

only ideas on feeding a splitter are...
1) mount a pivoting axle on it that lowered the unit to the ground via hydraulics...like some farm equipment...but you'd have to be ready to work bent over all day
2) lower the wedge end a bit so the rounds had a tendency to rest against it, and be held in place...use gravity to your advantage for once
3) after felling and limbing, position the logs parallel about 5' - 6' apart (or however wide your splitter axle is)...position your splitter at one end of this lane with the ram side facing it...starting at the splitter, buck down one log and back up the other...roll the splitter into the lane and split from both sides...roll along as progress is made...at the end you have a windrow of billets (*this is all assuming one guy can pickup the tongue and roll a splitter along...I know little about em'...use a maul myself)

ah...that kind of cutoff saw...we had one when I was a kid...with two guys you can buck ALOT of stuff in a hurry

I'm waiting for a garage sale large diameter chop saw...then I'm going to build it into a table about 8' long...and chop small stuff as fast as I can go

this would take some prep time, but...lay out some long ratchet straps 16" apart (or whatever your billet length is)...stack all your small logs as neatly as possible on them...starting in the middle secure the ratchet straps and tighten (real tight)...now just cut between the straps. you'll have some odd length pieces on the ends.

cheers!

 

[KiwiBro]

might as well throw multitek processors out on the table...it looks like their "tongs" feeder would work well for non-straight logs...that's what I'm saving up for

only ideas on feeding a splitter are...
1) mount a pivoting axle on it that lowered the unit to the ground via hydraulics...like some farm equipment...but you'd have to be ready to work bent over all day
2) lower the wedge end a bit so the rounds had a tendency to rest against it, and be held in place...use gravity to your advantage for once
3) after felling and limbing, position the logs parallel about 5' - 6' apart (or however wide your splitter axle is)...position your splitter at one end of this lane with the ram side facing it...starting at the splitter, buck down one log and back up the other...roll the splitter into the lane and split from both sides...roll along as progress is made...at the end you have a windrow of billets (*this is all assuming one guy can pickup the tongue and roll a splitter along...I know little about em'...use a maul myself)

ah...that kind of cutoff saw...we had one when I was a kid...with two guys you can buck ALOT of stuff in a hurry

I'm waiting for a garage sale large diameter chop saw...then I'm going to build it into a table about 8' long...and chop small stuff as fast as I can go

this would take some prep time, but...lay out some long ratchet straps 16" apart (or whatever your billet length is)...stack all your small logs as neatly as possible on them...starting in the middle secure the ratchet straps and tighten (real tight)...now just cut between the straps. you'll have some odd length pieces on the ends.

cheers!

Re: Multitek, have you been peeking at my internet bookmarks? I believe they have had their problems in the early days but I've yet to actually speak with anyone who's using a current grapple model to see what they think of them. I'm quite liking the look of the 2025 LDCS.

One option that has me wondering, especially if the processor will stay fixed in a yard somewhere, is the 3-phase electric motor option. That strikes me as a great option. If anyone else has ever looked at that option, what did they think of it?

Re: bucking small logs, I was first thinking along the lines of your manual tie-strap idea, but what would be great is if I could somehow modify a log trailer that has grapple and winch, to also include a sacrificial/replaceable wooden bed (chainsaw can kiss it ever now and then without any dramas) and some sort of tie strapping on each set of log support extensions that somehow maintains pressure (tightens up automatically) as the logs move and settle as they are being bucked. I hope that is easy enough to understand.