The MS461.........A Peek Inside

[TonyRumore]

I have a hard time believing that flange is only five bucks from Stihl. That sounds like an error in the pricing data base.
I would buy a pile right now....they will eventually figure it out.


Tony

 

[WV wood chopper]

There is no longer an option. If you order a new 441, it will be m-tronic. The standard 441 is no longer available.

Via Samsung Galaxy S3

That must be why my dealer is trying to sell the several 441C's he has!

 

[phelps63]

Problem is, I wonder how many outside of this website would even know a 441 can (well....should) be ordered with M-Tronic?

I called at least a dozen dealers when I got mine the first of the year . None had them in stock and just as many even knew what I was talking about,

 

[Mastermind]

I like the idea of testing the options with The Flange.

I guess I'd just like to know if it's inclusion is a genuine performance improvement or just a solution caused by other changes to meet the need for emission reductions...

The Huskys with long, front feeding, transfer tunnels have crankshaft stuffers to reduce crankcase volume and make the stratos work as intended. This "flange" the Stihl has is a form of a stuffer. The transfers can't have multiple "pulses" in them and work effectively. This area that is taken up is a necessary ingredient in getting the exhaust to flow back into the transfers far enough to cause a stratifing effect in the combustion chamber. Removing it may be a good idea.......or not. We will see though.

MasterMind what, if any, difference in power, torque vs. a 460 have you noticed stock? Just curious as to the difference this has over the older version before you mod.

This saw seems stronger right outta the box than a new 460.

 

[naturelover]

There is no longer an option. If you order a new 441, it will be m-tronic. The standard 441 is no longer available.

Via Samsung Galaxy S3

True, but I hope Stihl doesn't go away from M-Tronic based on sales of the 441C-M. Sadly, any possible disappointment Stihl may have with sales would have nothing to do with how it great it runs or its durability, but more on the lack of people knowing about it, or being wary of new technology...

I know, around here, people will probably avoid the M-Tronic system, even if it means spending more on the 460-461, because of preconceptions they have with electronic gadgets....

 

[madhatte]

The transfers can't have multiple "pulses" in them and work effectively.

If I understand correctly what's going on in there, what they really can't have is multiple out-of-phase pulses in them -- additive vs subtractive interference at different RPMs would mean it could only run properly at one speed. It would be the same as having a tuned pipe inside of the cylinder, only more dramatic, as the mixture would effectively change as well.

So: it's easiest to just have only one charge at a time, separated by the "Flange", rather than have to deal with constantly adjusting all of the moving parts to accommodate the changes that come with a 2-stroke engine's wide RPM band.

 

[Mastermind]

If I understand correctly what's going on in there, what they really can't have is multiple out-of-phase pulses in them -- additive vs subtractive interference at different RPMs would mean it could only run properly at one speed. It would be the same as having a tuned pipe inside of the cylinder, only more dramatic, as the mixture would effectively change as well.

So: it's easiest to just have only one charge at a time, separated by the "Flange", rather than have to deal with constantly adjusting all of the moving parts to accommodate the changes that come with a 2-stroke engine's wide RPM band.

The pulses will work in conjunction with the reciprocating action of the piston, so rpm shouldn't really be a factor.

But, I'm doing a lot of guesswork at this point.

 

[madhatte]

But, I'm doing a lot of guesswork at this point.

Likewise, but that's half the fun. It's gonna be cool to see what you come up with for this one!

 

[mweba]

The Huskys with long, front feeding, transfer tunnels have crankshaft stuffers to reduce crankcase volume and make the stratos work as intended. This "flange" the Stihl has is a form of a stuffer. The transfers can't have multiple "pulses" in them and work effectively. This area that is taken up is a necessary ingredient in getting the exhaust to flow back into the transfers far enough to cause a stratifing effect in the combustion chamber. Removing it may be a good idea.......or not. We will see though.



This saw seems stronger right outta the box than a new 460.

Seems that Stihl and Dolmar are one a similar track with this design. Exhaust scavenge control may turn out to be a slick way around strato. It also looks to be an easy design to work around although it may take some unconventional tweeks to maximize output.

I'll second the notion its stronger out the box than a 460. The little time I played with it showed a wide forgiving power band. Taching showed it to be just a couple hundred r's under a ported 60 buried in the cut.

 

[mweba]

Exhaust pins eh.

Got any more pickeez of that "stuffer"? What ever its purpose, the design was intentional and early.

 

[deye223]

hmmmm bump

 

[dingeryote]

hmmmm bump

Nah, I would call it a "curious Protuberance".

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[SawTroll]

Yeah I guess Stihl just has to be slowed down to keep everyone else jelous free

No, as they passed that level a long time ago - it looks more like they are confused.......:msp_sneaky:

 

[Trx250r180]

im in no rush to get this back ,take time needed for r&d and input from the members here ,hope we can all learn from this build as this wont be the first one to be modded im sure

 

[o8f150]

ok,, enough with the bsing,, i want to see some after vids:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Mastermind]

ok,, enough with the bsing,, i want to see some after vids:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

I'm wearing my shipping clerk hat right now. "I have a potty mouth". :msp_thumbup:

 

[Scooterbum]

I'm wearing my shipping clerk hat right now. "I have a potty mouth". :msp_thumbup:

That ol' shipping hat get stuck or sumpin' ?opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[thomas1]

I'm wearing my shipping clerk hat right now. "I have a potty mouth". :msp_thumbup:

Hawt.

Pics?

 

[Mastermind]

That ol' shipping hat get stuck or sumpin' ?opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

It'll be at least a week before I get to this saw Steve.

 

[Mastermind]

Hawt.

Pics?