Throwballing removals

[xtremetrees]

Who does it, why do it and how often.
This a very high speed and has only comeabout to me in the last year.

I've never thought about it, I've always done the tree as it comes to me in 5 feet intervals.

This is certainly "New School". Anyone applying this technique should be grandfathered into the C.A. catagory.

 

[Stumper]

Xtreme. In your inimitable style you aren't making very intelligble posts. If you mean "who throws a line up into a removal tree if there is room to fell it and then drops the whole thing with a tag line?"-I do and I consider anyone who can't conceive of doing that instead of pieceing out every tree extraordinarily naive and probably mentally deficient.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Throwline is a very cheap and powerful tool; even though the weakest of our lines.

i use it for climbing a removal, rigging same and dropping trees without climbing as Stumper explains. Many times can place higher, with less effort, almost total safety vs. climbing. Will throwline trees; i otherwise would just drop/ not climb; but so easy- can now force a healthier hinge/ slower fall; perhaps more choice over direction.

 

[CJ-7]

What a bunch of yo-yos. You guys are a hoot!
:yoyo:

 

[Climb020]

I couldn't believe what I read. I thought it was a noob question but then I saw it was xtreme. So extreme when there is a hanger stuck in a tree you pruned and you forgot it do you climb the tree again too?

 

[John464]

am I reading this right? When a tree can be pulled over with a rope in one shot , you instead climb it and take in pieces?

I use my throwball just about every day. Not just for tag lines to pull whole trees over, but to set my lower line and climbing line as well. Save your energy, don't leave home without your throwball and ateast a few sections of pole saw extensions.

 

[beowulf343]

Xtreme, this does suprise me. I am a die hard spiker yet if I can set my line from the ground and drop the tree without climbing it, I'll jump at the chance. In fact I wish I could do it more often, but too many of my jobs are in too tight of quarters.

 

[frashdog]

I think "some people" who lack precision felling skills prefer to spike up it.

 

[clearance]

I think "some people" who lack precision felling skills prefer to spike up it.

The mighty west coast faller speaks, behold.

 

[xtremetrees]

Well, if you were to teach a new climber to do a removal would you have them throwball the tree right in the begginning>?

I know it does sound crazy and a little time consuming to throwball a removal set a line and be tied in before your halfway up the tree is it the safeest way

What I'm changing about my climbing style is just that safety first. Most shops havent made this mandaory and probably wont.

This is most prevailent on storm removals. I bid many jobs during hurrican Ivan and it always came down to where to tie in. What is the throwball point, limb etc. always it was a cruicial step when looking at storm jobs multiple large hangers.

I;m trying to incorporate it into my routien, Throwballing every removal I do.

This helps me to be faster on my approach up the tree as my groundie belays me as I climb up.

My old school ways are tried and true and I'm still alive however: as safer praticies come to me I must let go of old habits. Most of my job anything I change about how I go about getting a tree down its scarry. Maybe this should be spikeless removals thread.

As I work aloft anything I change about my technique I feel kinda lost really and revert back to slower but tested technique.

I just didnt know how many were setting a climbing rope before you started a removal.

Climb020 yes today i throwballed a 80 foot pine climbed up and swung over to clean the gutters I used a girth hitch with a loop runner on a rake, it cleaned the gutters quickly.It was one thing I said I'd do that wasnt in the contract. Everyone of my customers are 110% satisified. My customers could call on me to walk thier dog. This I'm finding out is the most important thing I can do.Make my customers 110% happy.

 

[frashdog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by frashdog
I think "some people" who lack precision felling skills prefer to spike up it.

The mighty west coast faller speaks, behold.

umm yea, yo I ain't disin you or anyone else if that's what you're gettin at. I'm straight up saying what I said. I've seen people spike up a tree and remove half or so chunck by chunck then come down and fell the rest, when they could have fell the whole thing. Be it had to drop in a tight spot. Heck I've done it. Nerves and experience not up yet. Nothing wrong with it.

Now I get what extremetrees was getting at. How about a false crotch w/pulley set up from another line. Real quick right up w/someone else pulling down on the other end.

 

[beowulf343]

Xtreme, if you were actually refering to spikeless climbing removals, then no, i've never done a removal without spikes and have no plans on ever doing one without spikes.

Frashdog, no offense, i've just seen too many "fallers" say "yeah, that tree will lay right between the house and the garage." Then they cut it and screw up just a little bit on their notch, or a gust of wind comes up, or their saw pinches at a critical moment, and suddenly they are repairing a building. If there is plenty of room, sure i'll drop it. But otherwise, why not take the extra hour or two and save yourself some major headaches and repair bills by just removing some of the tree before you drop it?

 

[Stumper]

Xtreme. I certainly hope that you communicate better with your customers than you do with us. I am constantly amazed at your failure to actually state what the thunder you are blathering about.
Yes I set my line with a throwball on a lot of removals even though I may gaff up the tree-I find it to be a really nice secure way to go up. Sometimes it is better to just flip a lanyard up the tree and then tie in but usually I set my climbing line from the ground and then climb.
Lots of removals should be flopped. Flop'em when you can piece 'em out when you must.

 

[Fireaxman]

...Frashdog, no offense, i've just seen too many "fallers" say "yeah, that tree will lay right between the house and the garage...."

Amen, beowulf. Doesn't pay to be TOO self confident. I helped a "Mighty Faller" with a couple of big pines a few weeks ago. Good saw man, and he can and will climb, but he doesn't like to. I limbed and topped one for him, no problems. The second one was bigger, but when I offered to climb it he shrugged me off. "No, I want to see it hit the ground". I asked him if he wasn't worried about the driveway, and he said "Not a problem". He put a log between the driveway and the tree to take the blow.

You may have guessed it. Problem on the drive way. Big crack, and a big lateral punched a hole in it. His humbolt was a little too wide, and the top and mid section of the tree hit the driveway full force before the butt cleared the stump. The log that was supposed to soften the blow wasn't touched until after the top and midsection hit the driveway. The lesson I learned is ... if there is any doubt, climb, limb, and top, as long as it can be done safely.

 

[frashdog]

Frashdog, no offense, i've just seen too many "fallers" say "yeah, that tree will lay right between the house and the garage." Then they cut it and screw up just a little bit on their notch, or a gust of wind comes up, or their saw pinches at a critical moment, and suddenly they are repairing a building. If there is plenty of room, sure i'll drop it. But otherwise, why not take the extra hour or two and save yourself some major headaches and repair bills by just removing some of the tree before you drop it?

no offense taken. My comment obvoisly came across wrong, sorry it read like that. Maybe I should have said "most people" instead of "some people". I'm not ashamed to say I spike most removals near anything risking damage. When I say presision fellers (read:by no means am I one) I'm refering to those who have a second nature skill of felling where it has to go, time after time, they are out there.

Amen, beowulf. Doesn't pay to be TOO self confident.

and I will second that.

 

[clearance]

Frashdog, I like to push limits and have fun sometimes as well, instead of calling it luck how about calculated risk? Its a rush to outright fall trees with just undercut backcut, wedge and let er go. Specially around high voltage, the possibilties of failure really add to the excitement. Good for you, sorry I kind of mocked.

 

[frashdog]

Frashdog, I like to push limits and have fun sometimes as well, instead of calling it luck how about calculated risk? Its a rush to outright fall trees with just undercut backcut, wedge and let er go. Specially around high voltage, the possibilties of failure really add to the excitement. Good for you, sorry I kind of mocked.

right on.

Another note. I think most customers give a bit more respect and feel better about forkin out the dough to climbers versus fellers. Up here there are many a self proclaimed master beer can crushers, very un pro. Mind you I have seen some great drops in tight spots by some pros that commands respect. Still even spending a fair amount of time climbing I've heard customers say "that was fast". You can tell they're doing the math.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

To answer your question X, now that I clearly understand wtf you are talking about................Yes, always, if at all possible.

I'll even rig whole trees off of nearby trees, all from the ground, with my throwball and a bull line.

BTW these are by no means "new school" techniques, I learned 'em from a guy who could still climb like crazy when he was in his early 60's

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Setting a line on a removal? Of course, It just makes it so much easier to be able to go out on limbs right away to piece them out or set a tip-tie.

And as for beginner climber, it helps with their confidance to have the belay in there, so yes, I have set lines for greenhorns too. I encourage it.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

In a lot of instances, I will install a climbing line into the tree with the throwline, footlock to the top, and put on my spikes in the canopy. Especially if its large removal where I'll be hanging a block in the top.