Tired of ethanol issues! My Stihl 029 loves AV Gas.

[dparkguy]

I run my 029 on a fairly regular schedule. I started having issues with poor performance and traced the problem to bad gas. Took a trip to my local airport and got a 5 gallon can of aviation fuel. A little pricey but I no longer need to add fuel treatment. Anybody else try av gas?

 

[4seasons]

No need here. The station closest to my house sells 93 octane ethanol free. I know of at least 5 other stations in my area that sell real gas too. That is all I ever put in a small engine.

 

[sb47]

I sometimes run strait 110 with a good oil mix. I race mx so I have plenty of VP 110 oxygenated race fuel around. It really makes the chainsaw rip.

 

[kodiakyardboy]

No ethanol fuel here so no need but I have run avgas before. Good stuff!

 

[v8titan]

I have been running av gas in all my small engine tools for about a year now.....saws, blowers, mowers, power washer, splitter etc. Great fuel and keeps for a good long time. I highly recommend it, smells good too.

 

[Gologit]

I run my 029 on a fairly regular schedule. I started having issues with poor performance and traced the problem to bad gas. Took a trip to my local airport and got a 5 gallon can of aviation fuel. A little pricey but I no longer need to add fuel treatment. Anybody else try av gas?

A lot of people are using it. I've had good luck with it and I've been using it for several years.

Here's a good thread...http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/191031.htm

 

[sunfish]

I run Conoco 91 non eth here...

 

[baroil92]

I love AV gas, used it for years, pair that with Amsoil 2 cycle
....and that smell... yuuuuuummmmmy

 

[kodiakyardboy]

I love AV gas, used it for years, pair that with Amsoil 2 cycle
....and that smell... yuuuuuummmmmy

No better smell except maybe Varget gunpowder or leaves burning in the fall...

 

[sb47]

There is a misconception about octane and volatility.
People think a high octane is more volatile then a lower octane. “False”
In fact its just the opposite.
A high octane fuel is used in high compression motors because it is less volatile and resist pre ignition form the compression or glowing carbon build up.
So a fuel with an 87 octane rating is more volatile then a 110 octane fuel. In other words 87 octane fuel has a lower flash point, meaning it take less heat to ignite.

People think jet fuel is highly flammable, but it’s just cleaner more refined kerosene. It’s no more flammable then the kerosene you use in a heater.

 

[PA Plumber]

I've been running AV 100 LL for a number of years. Great storage life and haven't had a single issue that I am aware, except recently.

Just had a smaller saw ported a couple of months ago. That thing does not like AV fuel at all.
Had a station near us that just started selling 89 Non-eth fuel.
I'm going back to pump gas as long as I can get the eth free stuff.

 

[sb47]

The problem some people have with av gas or race gas is jetting. When you increase the octane you must change the jetting. Stihl saws have a carburetor that self adjust to air fuel mixture automatically so no jetting is needed unless you go to high on the octane.
Running to rich or too lean can do harm to the motor. it can make it run to hot when it leans out so care needs to be taken.

Here is some links to VP’s web site and some of the fuels they sell.
Sonoco sells many types of fuel as well.

Home - VP-SEF.com - Small Engine Fuels formulated by the "Mad Scientist"

motocross racing fuel, supercross racing fuel

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/master-fuels-table

 

[ss~zoso~ss]

a while back, a buddy of mine found a 2 stoke scooter on the side of the road with the trash

he took it, got it running, then we proceeded to try and kill it.

Needless to say, we ran it FULL BORE all night on CAM2 (108 octane i believe) with a 'that looks about right' amount of Marvel Mystery Oil for mix

Couldn't kill it, the thing was shooting a constant blue flame out of the exhaust

Good times!

 

[Whitespider]

No need for aviation fuel or fuel additives here...
The state of Iowa requires any pump dispensing fuel containing 1% ethanol or greater to be labeled. Probably 90% of the pumps in this state have at least one non-ethanol blended fuel choice. Two local pumps offer both 87 and 91 octane non-ethanol blended gasoline, I can get 92 and 93 if I want to drive 30 miles.

My two-cycle engines run crappy on the 87, but seem perfectly happy on the 91. Really, running fuel with too high an octane rating will rob power from a two-cycle, just as running too low will. Most aviation and racing fuels are too high in octane (100-110) and most also contain lead as an octane booster, which can cause problems over time in engines designed for lead-free... I find the 91-92 lead-free/ethanol-free to be about perfect.

 

[4seasons]

No need for aviation fuel or fuel additives here...
The state of Iowa requires any pump dispensing fuel containing 1% ethanol or greater to be labeled. Probably 90% of the pumps in this state have at least one non-ethanol blended fuel choice.

Odd that the state that pushes for more corn subsidies and turns lots of it's corn into ethanol is also one of the easiest places to find ethanol free fuel.

 

[Whitespider]

Odd that the state that pushes for more corn subsidies and turns lots of it's corn into ethanol is also one of the easiest places to find ethanol free fuel.

Not so odd really.
By trucking it to your state and selling it there, it brings more money into this state... selling it here only recycles money already here.
It ain't about "green" or "renewable", never has been... it's all about the money.

 

[Marc]

Jealous of you guys that can get ethanol free. It's 10% in MA and in CT where ever you go. Sucks.

 

[oppermancjo]

Not so odd really.
By trucking it to your state and selling it there, it brings more money into this state... selling it here only recycles money already here.
It ain't about "green" or "renewable", never has been... it's all about the money.

Don't tell my dad I said this but it is about the money... I'm not going to complain though. We grow 400 acres of corn and aren't complaining about the higher prices. That said, the people that say ethanol is causing a food shortage don't know what they're talking about. The ethanol process only uses about 2% of the nutritional value of a kernel of corn. Once done, it is sold off as distiller's grains and the cattle still get fed. A story for a different thread I suppose...

What I'm curious about is how would I know if my saw is running poorly? I know of one place around where I could get non ethanol fuel. I've always run 87 from the pump and I can't say I've ever experienced any issues with my saw. Now I'm thinking about trying the pre-mix stuff that Stihl sells in a bottle just to see if there is a difference. Is there really that much of a difference in how the saw runs?

 

[Whitespider]

Is there really that much of a difference in how the saw runs?

From a cold engine, my two-cycles start just a little easier (especially in sub-zero weather) on the 87 octane... but that's where the positives end.
Once the engine warms up, running 87, the idle becomes erratic and I'm constantly fiddling with the adjustments - Running 91 octane I can start a cold saw and set it down at idle, and it would probably run until the tank was empty... and I rarely have to fiddle with the mixture screws.
I definitely notice a difference with acceleration running 91, no hesitation or sluggishness - I can't say that about the 87.
I have to run the saw a bit "richer" on the 87, which increases fuel usage (not a big deal, but noticeable).
The engines just sound "healthier" on the 91 over the 87, I don't know how to better explain that, they just do... there's a "sharper note" to the exhaust.
It's near impossible to hear pre-ignition in a small two-cycle engine, but my old Harley Davidson golf cart has a 250cc two-cycle and I can surely hear it when the engine gets hot running 87... and it will "backfire" (detonation) occasionally on deceleration.
Again, near impossible to tell on small two-cycles, but the golf cart 250cc positively runs cooler on the 91 octane.
Power? Well, maybe I can't actually "feel" it, but the better an engine runs the more power it's likely making... that's just the way it works.

The operator manuals for the Stihl equipment both dad and I have (pre-EPA chainsaws, weed-whips, leaf blowers, etc.) all specify a minimum regular (non-ethanol) grade lead-free octane fuel of 89 (R+M)/2 (US-Canada) or 91 ROZ (Europe, which is approximately the same as 89 US). Honestly, I don't know what the "newer" engines call for, but if it's "lower" than previous engines than they've been "de-tuned"... that's just the way it works. Any 89 octane pump fuel I've ever seen in this state is blended with 10% ethanol, and I won't use it... besides, any small engine (2 or 4 stroke) I've ever run 10% ethanol in has run like crap.

addendum - By-the-way, I haven't used "gasahol" in anything since the very early 80's and I've never needed to replace fuel lines or carburetor diaphragms in any of my small engines... some of them well over 20-years old.

 

[FarmerSid]

There is a misconception about octane and volatility.
People think a high octane is more volatile then a lower octane. “False”
In fact its just the opposite.
A high octane fuel is used in high compression motors because it is less volatile and resist pre ignition form the compression or glowing carbon build up.
So a fuel with an 87 octane rating is more volatile then a 110 octane fuel. In other words 87 octane fuel has a lower flash point, meaning it take less heat to ignite.

People think jet fuel is highly flammable, but it’s just cleaner more refined kerosene. It’s no more flammable then the kerosene you use in a heater.

BINGO! Run the lowest octane fuel that you can without getting preignition or detonation. Any more than is needed will actually hurt power as it is harder to ignite . And costs more too. It's really hard to get this through peoples heads. They always think more octane or "race fuel" will give them all kinds of more power. The important part we should be worrying about using fuel with no ethenol in it. Around here, our high test or 91 octane fuel has none in it and that's what I use along with stabil to lengthen the life of the fuel.