tmz50/30, bil-jax 5133a or jlgt500j ???

[arbor pro]

I don't see much difference between the standard features of the tmz50/30, bil-jax 5133a or jlgt500j. Of these three booms (which I can get used in my area for around $20k), which is better for part-time tree work based on your experience?

I'm mostly concerned with:
1) Which has the lowest-maintenance controls so I'm not always working on sensors and control panels?
2) Do I need the gas backup if only working a few hours a day and able to tow the unit back to my shop every night?
3) Anyone have experience with the drive and set option - is it worth it? I have a mini skid to move it around with but it seems like it would be overkill to have to haul the mini skid along just to move the lift if I'm only doing light pruning.

Thanks. I'm looking to buy soon so your feedback may help me to narrow down my decision to one model or another. Right now, it's a toss-up for me.

Scott

 

[lxt]

Theres not much difference, when I bought my Genie they got in a batch of JLG`s, the guys there said they like the Genie better, said it was smoother!

Stay away from the Drive & set option, I looked at this & didnt like it, If its damp the rollers slip, tires wear quicker & the keyways to the roller motors are junk(you will need spares & will change often) they also seem to be underpowered....I just left it alone!! look at the service record on the machine you`re buying, I did on the D & S option unit......lots more maintenance & specifically the roller motors & hardware!!

Leveling sensors.....carry em with you( a couple any how) I had only 1 go bad so far but depends on how you maintain them too, Ice & snow when the riggers are stowed will wear em out faster.

as far as lowest maintenance costs... this will depend on the machine honestly, Ive had good luck with mine (flaws here & there but easy fixes) Fireman & John would be good to talk to also, we have all had areas that were problematic but the service or knowledge is what will make the difference.

Id personally stay away from a battery unit with an engine as a charging unit, thats why I wouldnt buy a biljax unit, although Ive looked at them, the new X series is pretty cool.........but its new!! batteries are heavy, expensive & cost to dispose of, if you go this route make sure the batteries are brand new!!! also there is no fail safe on these models batts start to die you come down now!! or it will take awhile for the engine to charge it so you can, all boom functions operate off batt power(biljax unit) engine is just for charging or s.propelled.

hope this helped, what year is the genie? I can tell you what upgrades to look for!! JLG Im not too familiar with, biljax is nice I just dont like the engine/batt thing(too many future problems that I see).

LXT..............BTW I just demo`ed the Biljax!!

 

[arbor pro]

Thanks lxt. I don't have any specific units in mind yet. Been looking at a number of genies - found a couple area ones that are 2005's with unknown hours for around $20k. Also found a couple of 1999 refurbished ones for around $16k but a bit leary of the quality of refurbishing as done by a private owner not a certified service center.

So, when you say you are leary of the gas over electric are you saying that yours is gas only - no electric at all? If not, what's the harm in having the gas engine to recharge the electric batteries?

Glad to hear your opinion on the drive and set. I had a feeling it would be more trouble than it's worth. I'm just wondering if there's a good alternative to loading my mini skid into the back of my pickup just so I have something to move the boom into back yards or tight spots. I know it would work well for moving the boom but I usually have it loaded on another trailer for cleanup purposes so, it would be a bit of a pain to move it back and forth between vehicles/trailers just to have it to move the boom around.

Do you know of anyone using some type of fiberglass insert for these booms for safety from electrical hazzards? I have no plans to use the boom to do utility clearance or anything like that but, I would feel a little bit more protected from electrial hazzards if I had some type of fiberglass basket liner for insulation just in case the boom or basket came in contact with a secondary wire...

 

[lxt]

Mine is gas only with an electric emergency backup, you wouldnt want to finish a job with the batt power if the engine failed, eats up a batt quick!!


leary on batt/engine; YES, heres a couple reasons, cold temps will lessen batt life, what if the engine doesnt start while in the air to recharge the batts?, batts are expensive to replace, the maintenance aspects are a little more expensive...........charging alternator(very expensive!!!)

the other thing is how often do you clean you car batt terminals? cause it will make a big difference in this machine clean/dirty & I beleive ther`re 4-6 batts in a unit some have 8,........I just dont like em plus if you forget to plug that baby in or blow a fuse......next morning could suck with dead batts.

My machine has a Bus/Semi battery to start the engine, my booms run off engine power, but it is a big enough battery that if the engine dies it will get you down & the riggers up(emergency circuit, kinda)


LXT................

 

[arbor pro]

Thanks again, lxt. What about the electronic boom controls on the genie tz50? It looks to me like every single movement to the boom has it's own push button control - that's a lot of sensors to go bad. I like the look of the joystick one-hand control of the jlg booms. Looks like less chance for electronics to go bad but, I'm just looking at photos online. I don't have any hands on experience with the genie or jlg units - just the bil-jax.

Anyone else want to weigh in with your opinion of which of these three models is the best based on low-maintenance, ease of use and any other pertinent factors?

 

[lxt]

The genie does have a push button control, you can do more than 1 function though, this also doubles as a type of remote unit which is used on the ground if you choose a material handling option, I have the crane hook so when the basket is removed the control box plugs into the main cpu & gives me a safe distance away from the machine for operation.


the joy stick would be nice, however it works the same(basically) there is a speed function(usually) & the joy stick selects the boom function, I dont beleive you can do more than 1 function at a time though, think of the joy stick as a multi directional light switch.

as far as sensors....there are none regarding either of these, I actually would think the joystick would be worse(cleaning/debris), both operate off contacts...which will need cleaned periodically, however the Genie touch button controls are in a sealed waterproof closure. These generally dont go bad its the solenoids at the manifold that will usually give you problems & there expensive around $300.00 ea.

The worse thing I found with these type units is letting them set, electrical corrosion will mess things up......so I spray all contacts with an electric cleaner/dioxidant. hope these helps!!

LXT.............

 

[arbor pro]

So I talked with one of the area dealers today. He deals both genies and jlg units. He kind of talked me out of the jlg and into the genie due to a couple of factors: 1) genie has better range of motion, 2) genie is smaller and easier to maneuver into tight spots than the jlg.

The units he has are both Honda gas and electric though he said that most of his customers use the electric as primary power with gas as the backup. They include material hooks and will have a 2-3 month warranty. This dealer has rented them out to area contractors and he rates their conditions at an 8 or better on a scale of 10.

For $20k should I be pouncing on one of these or looking for a better deal?

 

[lxt]

what year? this will mean alot as genie had some upgrades that needed done! if upgrades were done & the boom inspection up to date....seems like a good price! If you buy............get the cpu control program!!!!!

is the genie a tmz50/30 or a tz50/30?


LXT...........

 

[arbor pro]

lxt,

again, thanks for the advice. sorry, I meant to include the year - they were both manufactured in 05/2005. I attached a photo of one of the units.

If you buy............get the cpu control program!!!!!

Is this because you have to reprogram the controller often? How does the control program link to the unit?

It looks like nobody else wants to weigh in on this conversation between us! I'm glad you're willing to offer your opinion. I've read a number of your threads and I know that some listers don't always agree with your opinion. Agree or not, I appreciate that you take the time to weigh in. It gives a guy something to look into more at the very least so thanks...

scott

 

[lxt]

the cpu program is a wonderful troubleshooting tool it also can reset the parameters or change them, if your unit is from a rental agency they usually slow the machines functions down(more time/more$$$) its a disc usually!! put it into the laptop & I beleive the genie uses an 8 pin?? connection which plugs in on the main computer side, im sure they will show you!!

The model you have pictured is the tz50/30 & yes they are hybrids, I dont like them, also the engine & your pic prooves it is out in the open right behind the basket why they did this I dont know!! the engine in this position & if your use is tree work will take a pounding!!!!!!! especially the carb/air filter.

LXT............

 

[arbor pro]

The model you have pictured is the tz50/30 & yes they are hybrids, I dont like them, also the engine & your pic prooves it is out in the open right behind the basket why they did this I dont know!! the engine in this position & if your use is tree work will take a pounding!!!!!!! especially the carb/air filter.

LXT............[/QUOTE]

So, what makes this engine different than yours exactly. Did your genie's engine come installed in a different location from the factory or did you move it? I know you said you use the engine as the primary power source so, is it a bigger engine or the 8hp honda as on this unit.

Sorry about all the questions but, I'm a bit confused about what makes teh setup on your lift better than this one... got any pictures of your lift?

 

[lxt]

goto the picture/video forum genie in action thread! thats my lift!!

its really just personal preference, my engine is the 13hp honda & is located under the grey colored fiberglass shroud(passenger side when towing).

why genie decided to put the engine in the rear of the machine exposed like they did is beyond me, just one more thing to watch out for! & most in the shop or the ones needing parts are due to the engine being hit or something dropped on, not to mention sitting out in the weather.

The hybrids in general I dont like!! the button functions on the TZ are different, mines more of a touch pad. Batt units are nice when they`re new or working but if you ask any mechanic(other than where you wish to buy from) they will tell you the hybrids are a PITA & much more expensive to fix.

Honestly when I sell my machine(if I do) Ill have to find a non hybrid gas/diesel powered unit, If I cant Ill just have to refurbish mine!!

LXT.............

 

[fireman]

towable lift

arbor pro take a look at the nifty lift tm 50.lxt knows what im talking about try to stay with proportional hydralics I just went through a nightmare with tmz 50-30 with genie.please do your homework if it is a used machine get every work order and service record you can.please do your research on lifts.I just went to the sd 50 i couldnt be happier.the unit will go anywhere mud, hills, water, and snow.if you are interested pm me i will help you find a lift. lxt you have to go with sd 50 get some pics up for you.there is no other machine,I did 3 jobs yesterday that would have taken 3 days.the lift is fast goes any were sets in about 5 sec.

 

[lxt]

Fireman, I am jealous indeed!!! when I get ready for a new lift the Nifty 50 will be tops on my list, out of all the lifts...I think this this one offers the best all around bang for the buck.....of course its brandnew so keep us posted about the service, etc...

Arbor if you have the $$$ I would check out the nifty 50, however if you`re a LIL strapped for cash the towables are still very nice!!

Good luck

LXT......

 

[arbor pro]

Fireman,

I'll take a closer look at the tm50. There aren't many around SD - mostly genies, bil-jax and jlgs. The sd50 would be nice, as would the new bil-jax x-boom (similar); however, I don't have $40k, I only have $20k. If you know of any good tm50's for $20 or less and located in my region, I'd be very appreciative of any info you'd want to send me.

Scott

 

[arbor pro]

So, I went straight to the source and talked to the engineers and production manager at Genie Industries about differences between the tmz50/30 vs the new tz50 hybrid models. I found out what I needed to know about the two:

1) In 2004, the tmz went through a major redesign. The result was the hybrid tz50 model which cleaned up all of the control panel issues and outrigger leveling sensor issues the pre-2004 models were having. The tz50's sensors are now better enclosed from dust and dirt. The frames got beefed up and the extension boom track is better protected to prevent debris from getting into it and causing problems. The proportional hydraulics were also reworked and don't 'stick' as they did in the pre-2004 models.

2) the 5.5hp honda engine allows the batteries to charge while the boom is operated electrically. The relocation of the engine to the back of the machine was supposed to be for easier access and to allow for the canopy to be smaller. Genie recommends that the operator run the engine during boom operation to keep the batteries charged. As mentioned by fireman and lxt, I don't know if this was a smart move to relocate the engine but, I think a removable mesh cover would solve any concerns about debris hitting the engine and causing damage. Dust and dirt may be another story but I guess I'll have to see what kind of air filter system they have on it. Maybe a filter system similar to what's on a small stump grinder could be installed...?

Anyhow, I know that not everyone will agree on the tz50 as the best boom to go with but, I'm sold on it and going to start refining my search for one. I'll let you know what I end up getting and how it works out.

The one question I had for genie industries was whether their engineers had ever considered a small cable winch as an option. It seems to me that it wouldn't be too hard to rig a winch to run off of the batteries or 5.5hp engine. It could mount at the base of the unit and have guy eyelets along the boom up to the jib where the cable could run through a cable pulley. With a lifting weight of 500#, the cable wouldn't have to be very big at all but it would come in hand for contractors to lift small tree sections, set rafters, etc,etc. I thought of this because my brother-in-law wants me to lift an auger out throug the top of a 30' grain bin once I get the lift. To do so will require running some sort of cable or rope up through the jib hook and down into the bin since the hook won't be able to reach down inside. I've also had occasions where I needed a small crane to lift tree sections out and over a structure and the only way to do so would be to cable down from the boom to the tree. To bring in a big crane when a few small sections could be taken out using the towable would be overkill.

Seems like a winch would be an optional accessory that would be popular? Any of you guys rigged up your own light-duty winches to run off of a towable or spider lift?

Scott

 

[lxt]

I dont really use a winch, what I do is run the rope through a snatch block connected to the crane hook attachment, that way I can let it run if things get out of control!! Ive set trusses, windows, siding, sofit/fascia, etc.. I made a home made fork attachment for mine but I think Ill either buy one or have a fab shop make me a good one!!


All the problems mentioned with the tmz, sensors, panel boards, etc.. were actually recalled, for instance my lift has all the upgrades that the new tz has & is lighter in weight, the additional batteries in the tz add a couple hundred pounds therefore they had to beef up the frame work!

The tz is nice, I just think they should of encased the engine or something, most who have operated both like the tmz series better, actually you will find more tz`s for sale than the tmz`s......theres a reason for that!!!

Ive in some ways bragged my machine up & have given pros & cons, I like Genie, but if I were to buy a new lift!!!!! it would be the Nifty & if money wasnt a problem Id get the 23gt spiderlift.

Who knows this lift might be the best thing you ever bought, it really all depends on the person & what they prefer!! Good Luck & above all Be safe & have fun!

LXT............

 

[lxt]

1) In 2004, the tmz went through a major redesign. The result was the hybrid tz50 model which cleaned up all of the control panel issues and outrigger leveling sensor issues the pre-2004 models were having. The tz50's sensors are now better enclosed from dust and dirt. The frames got beefed up and the extension boom track is better protected to prevent debris from getting into it and causing problems. The proportional hydraulics were also reworked and don't 'stick' as they did in the pre-2004 models.

2) the 5.5hp honda engine allows the batteries to charge while the boom is operated electrically. The relocation of the engine to the back of the machine was supposed to be for easier access and to allow for the canopy to be smaller. Genie recommends that the operator run the engine during boom operation to keep the batteries charged. As mentioned by fireman and lxt, I don't know if this was a smart move to relocate the engine but, I think a removable mesh cover would solve any concerns about debris hitting the engine and causing damage. Dust and dirt may be another story but I guess I'll have to see what kind of air filter system they have on it. Maybe a filter system similar to what's on a small stump grinder could be installed...?


Scott

I dont know why the engineers stated that the ext. boom track is better protected, Its identical to the tmz! Also these machines dont have proportional hydraulics they have elec/hydraulic( big difference).

paragraph 2 states exactly why I think hybrids are somewhat useless, If you have to let the engine run or it is suggested to do such, Why not just eliminate the batts & stay with the engine/diesel power source? I just dont see the benefits in this type of system.

LXT...........

 

[juststumps]

Fireman,

I'll take a closer look at the tm50. There aren't many around SD - mostly genies, bil-jax and jlgs. The sd50 would be nice, as would the new bil-jax x-boom (similar); however, I don't have $40k, I only have $20k. If you know of any good tm50's for $20 or less and located in my region, I'd be very appreciative of any info you'd want to send me.

Scott

are you going to buy a lift to make money????

why plunk down 20 K on a used machine ????

go get a new one ,,, for 40-50 K ,,lease it ,, make the monthly payments,,, write it off on your taxes ,,, put the 20 K you have in the stock market or mutual funds !!! 20 K gives you over a 2 year cushion on the lease payments,, if your slow..... worst case,, is they repo the thing ,, if you can't make the payments ...i really don't see that happening ,, if you socked away 20 K to spend.... JMHO

 

[lxt]

Thats a good point juststumps, thats what im gonna do but Ill have around 50-60k to play with, machine im looking at can cost as lil as 57k & as much as 65k depending on options.

buying used isnt all that bad & the worry of a monthly payment not being there helps!! If you can the best way to do it is to buy it outright, used or new!! no matter what you will profit from what you purchase unless its junk!!

most equip. co`s financing dept`s are a little hesitant to give out loans nowadays but if you have 70-80% down pay they love ya!!

LXT..........