Tree Damage From Crop Spraying

[pdqdl]

Not at all. Most of us don't keep the email notifications. Most of us turn them off.
Besides, the link you posted did not take me to a specific location, anyway. Not even on the first click.

"toy" ? Typo, or a name I don't recognize?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Not at all. Most of us don't keep the email notifications. Most of us turn them off.
Besides, the link you posted did not take me to a specific location, anyway. Not even on the first click.

"toy" ? Typo, or a name I don't recognize?

I deleted the link, as suggested by someone, but it's still in the email notifications that were sent out from this site.
...and talking about this now, with the images you posted, makes me deleting that link a pointless waste of time.
Don't you think?

I know you enjoy the mental stimulation of verbal sparing, so do I on occasion, but today is not a good day for me.
I'll take a raincheck.

Would you like to comment on the map of the farmland you posted, like the lack of ponds and greenery, rather than who owns the land?
If not, I'm finally going to watch that video Del posted in another thread.

Oh, but first, I need to start a new thread!

 

[pdqdl]

The lack of ponds is mostly attributable to the soil in the area, the need for supplemental irrigation, and the agricultural history.

Many parts of the country lack enough clay to hold water. Even though there is dirt, that doesn't mean the pond will remain full except after a recent rain. Areas with nothing but rocky soil have the same issues, as well as horrendous excavation expenses. Otherwise, the agricultural history and economy of an area pretty much dictates why the ponds are not being built.

For example: Missouri has not one single pond or body of water that is not man-made. Yet we have zillions of little ponds and lakes dotting the state, from tiny cattail ponds to rather large Corps of Engineers lakes created by damming up a river. We do have deep layers of clay soil that do an excellent job of holding pond water.

 

[David Ellis]

TNT TreeHugger,

Are the older local farmers who work with these chemicals intimately dying younger than average?

Is there any local evidence among the health of aging farmers that supports your farming chemical paranoia?

Do you think the local farmers are not concerned for their personal health?

Do you think you have more chemical exposure than the local farmers?

Do you think farmers want to use their expensive chemicals on anything other than their crops/land ? Do you think farmers are intentionally wasteful in this regard ?

You mentioned a couple of dead trees and cited what appear to be "weak" trees. Assuming you find traces of some farm chemical in a living tree, how will you make life more difficult for the farmers? Assuming the famers are in compliance with regulations, do you plan a civil suit?

If you successfully make life more difficult for the farmer(s) and "win", what do you think the ultimate outcome will be?

If the farmer decides to sell his property adjacent to your property following sufficient complaints, what type of development do you think will happen adjacent to your home?

 

[TNTreeHugger]

The lack of ponds is mostly attributable to the soil in the area, the need for supplemental irrigation, and the agricultural history.

Many parts of the country lack enough clay to hold water. Even though there is dirt, that doesn't mean the pond will remain full except after a recent rain. Areas with nothing but rocky soil have the same issues, as well as horrendous excavation expenses. Otherwise, the agricultural history and economy of an area pretty much dictates why the ponds are not being built.

For example: Missouri has not one single pond or body of water that is not man-made. Yet we have zillions of little ponds and lakes dotting the state, from tiny cattail ponds to rather large Corps of Engineers lakes created by damming up a river. We do have deep layers of clay soil that do an excellent job of holding pond water.

We have clay soil here and there have been many ponds in the area that have been here a long time, that are no longer here.
I know the ones in the fields near me have been there at least thirty years, up until about five years ago when they were filled in for crop farming. The one to the south of me was pretty big and had a lot of water foul stopping in. That was when they had cattle. Now there's row crops and the pond is gone. Now that the pond is gone there is serious flooding on the road in that area when ever we get a lot of rain.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

TNT TreeHugger,

Are the older local farmers who work with these chemicals intimately dying younger than average?

Is there any local evidence among the health of aging farmers that supports your farming chemical paranoia?

Do you think the local farmers are not concerned for their personal health?

Do you think you have more chemical exposure than the local farmers?

Do you think farmers want to use their expensive chemicals on anything other than their crops/land ? Do you think farmers are intentionally wasteful in this regard ?

You mentioned a couple of dead trees and cited what appear to be "weak" trees. Assuming you find traces of some farm chemical in a living tree, how will you make life more difficult for the farmers? Assuming the famers are in compliance with regulations, do you plan a civil suit?

If you successfully make life more difficult for the farmer(s) and "win", what do you think the ultimate outcome will be?

If the farmer decides to sell his property adjacent to your property following sufficient complaints, what type of development do you think will happen adjacent to your home?

I think you remind me of someone who was recently banned.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

TNT TreeHugger,

After taking a few hours to recharge and regroup, I've decided to reply to your questions.

Are the older local farmers who work with these chemicals intimately dying younger than average?
Is there any local evidence among the health of aging farmers that supports your farming chemical paranoia?
Do you think the local farmers are not concerned for their personal health?
Do you think you have more chemical exposure than the local farmers?

The above questions are irrelevant to the issue of chemical trespass and the damage being caused to all the trees, plants, and vegetation on my property, my neighbors property, throughout the county, and likely again this year, throughout the state.
As I'm sure you well know, pesticides are designed to kill specific pests. 24-D LV6 is designed to kill broadleaf plants, trees, etc. The lethal dose of 24-D required to kill a tree is not the same as what would be a lethal dose for other living things. Some would require a higher dose, others a lower dose.
At the moment, I am concerned with the effects on vegetation.
Should some time in the future I be diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, my focus will change.

Do you think farmers want to use their expensive chemicals on anything other than their crops/land ? Do you think farmers are intentionally wasteful in this regard ?

No.

You mentioned a couple of dead trees and cited what appear to be "weak" trees.

Quote me where I made any mention of "weak" trees. I don't believe I did. There is a lot of dead in my yard.

Assuming you find traces of some farm chemical in a living tree,

Laboratory tests preformed at the request of the Department of Agriculture inspector have positively determined chemical trespass and contamination due to 24-D LV6, both in 2022 and again in 2023. I strongly suspect when he takes samples again this coming Monday, the results, again, will show 24-D contamination.

how will you make life more difficult for the farmers? Assuming the famers are in compliance with regulations, do you plan a civil suit?

Up until this after noon, I have been saying I do not want to sue the farmers.
But, I've been very carefully mulling over this course of action this evening.
Sadly, due to the way the system is rigged against private property owners in the favor of the big chemical companies, there is no other recourse left than to sue the farmers for the damage caused to property.
If the farmers feel that someone else is to blame, then it will be upon them to prove that in a court of law. I've just this evening come to this sad conclusion after exploring every possible scenario and this appears to be my only recourse.
My property was contaminated with chemical trespass two years ago and I have watched the steady decline and slow death of my trees and all other vegetation every single day since then. Since it's safe to assume the farmers will continue to farm, in the same manner, and using the same chemicals, they use now I will be forced to watch things die on my property until everything is dead, or until the day I die, whichever comes first. I estimate that to be around 20 years. That's a lot of pain and suffering that will be inflicted on me by the farmers via the chemicals they spray. And you have the nerve to ask "how will you make life more difficult for the farmers?"

If you successfully make life more difficult for the farmer(s) and "win", what do you think the ultimate outcome will be?

I hope I will be compensated for damage done to my property, and for my pain and suffering for the next 20 years.
I have no intention to leave my land.

If the farmer decides to sell his property adjacent to your property following sufficient complaints, what type of development do you think will happen adjacent to your home?

The farmer doesn't own the property adjacent to mine.
The landowners around here rent the farmland out to the farmers. The farmers don't own all the land they farm. I don't expect there to be any other complaints because everyone else around here is either a farmer, knows a farmer, or rents out their property to a farmer.
The members of the city council are farmers. The attorneys for the town, city, and county are farmers, or come from farming families.
So, no, the farmers won't be selling their farms - not yet anyway and not until they're ready to retire and get a good offer from a developer, which is already happening and has nothing to do with crop spraying.
Actually, what's been going on is old family farms are being sold at auction and the local farmers, in the past, have been grabbing up all they could get their hands on. But now they have competition from out of state, out of country land grabbers. A development of multi million dollar homes would be a much preferred sight than dying, dead, and contaminated fields.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

@David Ellis I have two questions for you, if you don't mind:
1. Are you a crop farmer?
2. If not a farmer, what is your line of work?

 

[JRM]

For example: Missouri has not one single pond or body of water that is not man-made.

I don't think that's true? Maybe most are man made, but no natural lakes? I believe the only state in the US that holds that title is Maryland.

I've been wrong before though.

 

[lone wolf]

I don't think that's true? Maybe most are man made, but no natural lakes? I believe the only state in the US that holds that title is Maryland.

I've been wrong before though.

Are there any natural lakes in Mo?​

Yes, there are natural lakes in Missouri. Big Lake in north Missouri is among the largest remaining natural oxbow lakes along the Missouri River, and it is one of the largest natural lakes of any type in the state. Most of Missouri’s well-known lakes are man-made.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

You know... when I typed this last night,

Since it's safe to assume the farmers will continue to farm, in the same manner, and using the same chemicals, they use now I will be forced to watch things die on my property until everything is dead, or until the day I die, whichever comes first. I estimate that to be around 20 years.

I believe it was the first time I seriously realized this is going to be an annual event for the rest of my life.

Up until yesterday, I've been thinking it was just a single freak accident, and that it wouldn't happen again and that whatever survived from the initial contamination would be safe from here on out and all would be well.

I suddenly realized that's not the case and my property and everything living on it (and the surrounding areas) will be contaminated every year, for as long as there is farmland. Trees will always be poisoned and die a slow death until there are no more trees left.. and that would suit the farmers just fine. They're just obstacles and a nuisance.
Since the farmers rotate crops every year, and 24-D is used both on corn and soybean, a farmer will be spraying 24-D every year.

Imagine someone trespassing on your property, destroying your property, every spring, every year for the rest of your life. And the authorities say they have legal right to do so. What would you do?

Yesterday I remembered, I'm a survivor. And this war isn't over yet.

 

[Del_]

Imagine someone trespassing on your property, destroying your property, every spring, every year for the rest of your life. And the authorities say they have legal right to do so. What would you do?

I would move.

But I never would have chosen to live in the middle of ag fields to begin with.

Ditto with landfills and their well known contamination of groundwater, etc.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I would move.

Where to?
You wouldn't fight for the land you've worked so hard to cultivate?
I seriously considered this last year when I saw it happening again. I searched high and low for a 2-5 acre wooded lot. I searched real estate listing all over the state. What I found is that land in the woods is being over-developed, turned into subdivisions, and managed by HOAs. The surrounding area is being logged to death for more subdivisions, or crops.
My place is paid for, been in the family for generations, has a great view, and is perfect in every way for my needs.

But I never would have chosen to live in the middle of ag fields to begin with.

I chose to live here because my dad left it to me and I felt a responsibility to keep up the "old farm place."
When I moved here 30 years ago, the fields beside and across from me were filled with cattle. About 15 years ago, more and more nursery stock was being planted. It was so beautiful every spring, seeing fields full of blooming trees and shrubs. The owner of the big one just up the road retired his nursery business two years ago and now rents out his hundreds of acres to crop farmers. His wife was complaining she couldn't see anything but corn that first year - their huge multi million dollar home is smack in the middle of the field! It was a beautiful sight when it was nursery. The value of that home must have drastically dropped when they planted the crops. There is a new one across from me now, but I fear their stock will be damaged same as mine.

Ditto with landfills and their well known contamination of groundwater, etc.

True, I would never choose to live in a place like that, and unfortunately those who do live in those places likely lived there well before the landfills moved in... or can't afford to live anywhere else.
I've been here thirty years and never had this issue until two years ago.

 

[pdqdl]

I don't think that's true? Maybe most are man made, but no natural lakes? I believe the only state in the US that holds that title is Maryland.

I've been wrong before though.

Are there any natural lakes in Mo?​

Yes, there are natural lakes in Missouri. Big Lake in north Missouri is among the largest remaining natural oxbow lakes along the Missouri River, and it is one of the largest natural lakes of any type in the state. Most of Missouri’s well-known lakes are man-made.

I found the same information on Big Lake. As a Missouri resident, I grew up with the understanding that we had no natural ponds or lakes above a certain small size. Perhaps the folks telling me that hadn't looked hard enough, nor considered the oxbow "ponds". On the other hand, I also suspect that the oxbow lakes would have silted in completely, had they not been maintained by humans. In that sense, they are certainly man-made, including the restorations of Big Lake following flooding damage in 1903 and re-chanelling of the Tarkio river in 1920.

If you take a Google satellite view tour of the Missouri and Mississippi rivers, you will see hundreds of oxbow lakes. I believe, however, that most all of them were built by Corps of Engineers re-channeling of the river levees and by human maintenance by dredging.

I'll take the correction, and maintain my position: Some parts of the country are still bereft of any ponds to use for irrigation on account of tthe natural conditions that lead to pond or lake formation.

 

[Del_]

Where to?
You wouldn't fight for the land you've worked so hard to cultivate?
I seriously considered this last year when I saw it happening again. I searched high and low for a 2-5 acre wooded lot. I searched real estate listing all over the state. What I found is that land in the woods is being over-developed, turned into subdivisions, and managed by HOAs. The surrounding area is being logged to death for more subdivisions, or crops.
My place is paid for, been in the family for generations, has a great view, and is perfect in every way for my needs.


I chose to live here because my dad left it to me and I felt a responsibility to keep up the "old farm place."
When I moved here 30 years ago, the fields beside and across from me were filled with cattle. About 15 years ago, more and more nursery stock was being planted. It was so beautiful every spring, seeing fields full of blooming trees and shrubs. The owner of the big one just up the road retired his nursery business two years ago and not rents out his hundreds of acres to crop farmers. There is a new one across from me now, but I fear their stock will be damaged same as mine.

True, I would never choose to live in a place like that, and unfortunately those who do live in those places likely lived there well before the landfills moved in... or can't afford to live anywhere else.
I've been here thirty years and never had this issue until two years ago.

I understand your dilemma all to well but in the end you are not going to change ag practices on your neighboring properties.

I suggested a move for your physical and mental well being.

 

[TNTreeHugger]

I understand your dilemma all to well but in the end you are not going to change ag practices on your neighboring properties.

I suggested a move for your physical and mental well being.

Yes, it is a huge dilemma, for me.
You ever hear/see that Serenity Prayer?
"G0d grant me the courage to change the things I can, accept the things I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference."
That was my mothers mantra after my dad died and she had to move here.
I hated that saying.. but now I understand it the way she did.

I truly appreciate your sincere suggestion, and honestly, I haven't ruled it out all together.
Time will tell, as property values around here rise and opportunities present themselves, I just might find that log cabin in the woods after all.

If not, I plan on leaving the property to the Jews for a synagogue in my will.

But, today? The shingles for my new roof were just delivered.
Like the song says, "Life goes on..."

 

[TNTreeHugger]

 

[TNTreeHugger]

Good news, I think.
This morning, I came across a letter to the editor I wrote two years ago, but never sent.
I sent it to the woman from the newspaper this morning and she said her editor thinks it will make a great article to run - On Earth Day!!

I'm also having copies of that letter and some color fliers, with damaged plant images, printed up to mail out to nearby property owners. I did that last year, too.
Should I post a copy of the letter here?

Who knows? Maybe someone important will notice and do something about it.

 

[lone wolf]

Good news, I think.
This morning, I came across a letter to the editor I wrote two years ago, but never sent.
I sent it to the woman from the newspaper this morning and she said her editor thinks it will make a great article to run - On Earth Day!!

I'm also having copies of that letter and some color fliers, with damaged plant images, printed up to mail out to nearby property owners. I did that last year, too.
Should I post a copy of the letter here?

Who knows? Maybe someone important will notice and do something about it.

Cant hurt to post it here if it's going public in a newspaper, wow they still have those, so sure! Looking forward to reading it.

 

[lone wolf]

Cant hurt to post it here if it's going public in a newspaper, wow they still have those, so sure! Looking forward to reading it.

You might want to contact a bunch of news stations with this story.