Two-Stroke Oils: All the Same?

[bwalker]

Agreed, mostly. Your tune will NEED to go slightly richer for a 10:1 (ad absurdum example) because you’re introducing less burnable fuel into the engine per stroke.


Correct assuming good tuning and quality oil, and completely agreed. Until you hit the spark arrestor. Cooled, partially partially burned oil hitting a metal mesh surface creates predictable results. I know, just clean your #$%& spark arrestor once in awhile, no problem.

That slower burn of the oil should also have some effect on the timing itself. Faster burn…equals an advance? Having trouble visualizing the run right now, but I think that’s right. Probably a small change either way.

Also agreed on the terrible quality fuel as well. I’ve even seen problems from the canned premix stuff.

From the results people are having with the saber oil, it’s actually doing as good if not better job leaving a coating than the traditional mix oils. Another thing to monitor in actual use. I’ll be pulling muffler and checking the saw cold.

One last thing. I trust very few peoples testimonials on oil quality. Most guys are so ignorant of what to look for, what they are actually seeing and what causes what they are seeing that their opinions are useless.
An example is the guys that uses Brand X super synthetic oil, pulls his motor apart after 5 hours of run time and the piston is bare metal. The guys then get on the internet and claim Brand X is the best and perfectly clean. The problem is a bare metal piston just proves they guy can't tune a carb to save his life and has nothing to do with oil.

 

[sean donato]

Sean, you are running those on alky though, right?

No running them on high test. The smaller scale glow engines run on a nitro/methanol mix. They were one weedwhacker engines back in the day. Now they are purpose built for rc use. These are the 2 1/5 scale models I currently have. The pic with my daughter is the 5ive t. 32cc zen based engine. The other chassis with the solid axles is a kraken vekta .5 34cc zen based engine.

 

[Backstage]

An example is the guys that uses Brand X super synthetic oil, pulls his motor apart after 5 hours of run time and the piston is bare metal. The guys then get on the internet and claim Brand X is the best and perfectly clean. The problem is a bare metal piston just proves they guy can't tune a carb to save his life and has nothing to do with oil.

Yeah, I’ve seen the youtube guy who’s getting a ton of likes trashing sthil hp, possibly the most recent example of that. I don’t doubt either that what he’s seeing is real, but as you say, there’s a lot going on there.

As I see it, an auto tune saw is the only way to play these on the same field.

 

[bwalker]

Yeah, I’ve seen the youtube guy who’s getting a ton of likes trashing sthil hp, possibly the most recent example of that. I don’t doubt either that what he’s seeing is real, but as you say, there’s a lot going on there.

As I see it, an auto tune saw is the only way to play these on the same field.

Well Stihl HP isn't great oil...but, yea there is alot to consider and so many variable that back yard testing for you tube while somewhat entertaining is complete garbage.

 

[Mike Acres]

Several years , no issues

 

[Mike Acres]

The answer is to run ASPEN 2 Professional Fuel in anything air cooled two stroke. It is alkylate fuel mixed with a fantastic synthetic oil they make themselves. There is no smoke created, less environmental pollution, it is the best for the engine and there are no cancer causing agents in the exhaust. It has been used in Europe for over 35 years, was promoted in the beginning by Husqvarna and you will never loose an engine if the carb is set properly. You will not die of cancer either.

 

[bwalker]

The answer is to run ASPEN 2 Professional Fuel in anything air cooled two stroke. It is alkylate fuel mixed with a fantastic synthetic oil they make themselves. There is no smoke created, less environmental pollution, it is the best for the engine and there are no cancer causing agents in the exhaust. It has been used in Europe for over 35 years, was promoted in the beginning by Husqvarna and you will never loose an engine if the carb is set properly. You will not die of cancer either.

I've never seen it for sale. Have seen other brand canned fuels and IMO they are to expensive for what they are.

 

[Dennisthemenace]

My advice, DONT STEP FOOT DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE!!!

Find something from a reputable supplier that’s within your budget and designed for air cooled engines and stick with it, mix at 32:1 and forget everything and anything else oil related - MOVE ON!! Forget ratings, mineral vs synthetic vs semi synthetic, flash points, etc. stay away from Stihl oils.

Castrol, Amsoil, Echo, Yamaha, all good stuff it seems.

Edit, just seen you brought red armour, fantastic, stick with it and forget everything else even exists.

Have you found a supplier of Red Armor in Aus Tom? It is too expensive to import nowadays

 

[sean donato]

The answer is to run ASPEN 2 Professional Fuel in anything air cooled two stroke. It is alkylate fuel mixed with a fantastic synthetic oil they make themselves. There is no smoke created, less environmental pollution, it is the best for the engine and there are no cancer causing agents in the exhaust. It has been used in Europe for over 35 years, was promoted in the beginning by Husqvarna and you will never loose an engine if the carb is set properly. You will not die of cancer either.

The cost alone doesn't make sense if you go through any amount of fuel. Last I looked a gallon of vp44 50 to 1 was close to $27.00. Gallon of e-free gas is around $5.00 gal, regular high test is pushing $4.00 gal. Just this past weekend I went through 2 gallons of fuel in the 400cm and 192tc. That was just bucking logs that I had piled up for splitting. Once I get started at the neighbors house it will be a lot more the 2 gallons of fuel.

 

[bwalker]

The cost alone doesn't make sense if you go through any amount of fuel. Last I looked a gallon of vp44 50 to 1 was close to $27.00. Gallon of e-free gas is around $5.00 gal, regular high test is pushing $4.00 gal. Just this past weekend I went through 2 gallons of fuel in the 400cm and 192tc. That was just bucking logs that I had piled up for splitting. Once I get started at the neighbors house it will be a lot more the 2 gallons of fuel.

That's exactly it.
That and I know what it costs to make a gallon of alkylate. It's not near $27 per gallon. In fact it's under $5 a gallon.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Have you found a supplier of Red Armor in Aus Tom? It is too expensive to import nowadays

Hey Dennis, I haven’t sadly mate, have you?

 

[sean donato]

Im pretty sure the husqy xp+, red armor, and rexmax oil are all the same thing.

 

[bwalker]

Im pretty sure the husqy xp+, red armor, and rexmax oil are all the same thing.

They are for certain not.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Redmax and XP+ might be the same, Redmax oil says Husqvarna right on the jug. Red Armor is different.

 

[sean donato]

Thought there was a third oil that was the same as the hp+ and redmax? I was fairly certain that Phillips 66 was the manufacturer of both (all 3) oils. I have seen the msds cheet for the red armor, and was fairly sure Phillips 66 Bought out the company that made the husqy/redmax oil.

 

[bucketofguts]

I plan to get a big container of oil for my 2-stroke engines. Does it really matter which brand I get? More importantly, are there brands I should avoid?

There just a few producers of oil and they make all the oil synthetic and dinosaur. Drink someones cool-aid and call it good. Same for gas. Use a quality product that smells good. I have used many over 40 years and have never had a issue. Snake oil is very high $ now days. Maybe run them a little fat. And like my builder says You can't just crank it up and go racing. You got to tune it.

 

[bwalker]

Redmax and XP+ might be the same, Redmax oil says Husqvarna right on the jug. Red Armor is different.

The last time I looked at the MSDS for Redmax and XP+ they were not the same and Red Armor is different as well.

 

[bwalker]

There just a few producers of oil and they make all the oil synthetic and dinosaur. Drink someones cool-aid and call it good. Same for gas. Use a quality product that smells good. I have used many over 40 years and have never had a issue. Snake oil is very high $ now days. Maybe run them a little fat. And like my builder says You can't just crank it up and go racing. You got to tune it.

Just because a few companies(more like a half dozen) doesn't mean they are all the same. Phillips 66 has great track record of producing oil for many oems and they are all different.

 

[snobdds]

Not to add 'fuel to the fire', but what is wrong with Stihl HP ULtra? Have been running it for years 1:50 or a bit richer, mainly in my 2 026's. Seems to burn quite cleanly...
If I'm not mistaken, it's also the oil they use in their 'Motomix' 2-stroke alkylate fuel.

I guess I've been ignorantly lucky with it for years. I've put gallons of it through saws...

I would have never known it to suck.

Thank God for the world wide web thingy.

 

[Pioneer]

Mix any good oil at 40:1? Don't try that with opti-2. I've had trouble trying to do it at 50:1 in a leaf blower and chainsaw. It really is meant to be mixed much thinner.
It seems the oil has a lot of cling to it, including clinging to the passageways in the carburetor. This can really mess with fuel flow, so much in fact I could not tune a leaf blower rich enough because it restricted that much. In a Stihl ms250 it really messed up the mid-range tune, and I could not adjust it out. After I went back to using Castrol like I normally do at 50:1, it slowly returned to normal as the Opti was washed out.
It seems to work fine at 100:1 and I've used it in small equipment like that, but I don't have enough courage to run it at 100:1 in one of my saws.
That being said my uncle has been using it in his 024 AV super since it was new at 100:1, and the saw still runs strong today. Up until about 5 years ago he's been using firewood to heat his house in the winter, so the saw is no shelf queen.

In any case I've had no trouble using Castrol for years at 50:1, but I usually cut in cooler temperatures and I would probably go to 40:1 if I cut during the middle of summer. My experience with it has been good, little in the way of deposits and never any oil related failures.