Uneducated consumers

[Dusty Rhodes]

You can get umbrella coverage that would cover anything but most are geared to kick in at about $250,000 or more. This State ISN"T thinking or it would have made WC mandatory a long time ago. I guess they are afraid they will upset the illegal aliens.

Better read your Umbrella policy. Most cover only what the underlying policy does. If it is not covered on your underlying commercial liability policy or homeowners, it is probably not covered on your Umbrella policy either. I think the man or woman climbing up in the tree should have the insurance. If they choose to fly bare then they should be out of luck when they get hurt. Problem as others have said is that our society wants to always have someone else pay. Personal responsibility and accountability of many left these United States many years ago me thinks.

 

[mckeetree]

Lack of education is part of it, insurance/licensing laws vary by area. Where I'm at, currently you do not require any type of qualification or insurance to legally run a small business. If you are hiring people and they are employees and not sub contractors then you do need WC for them, but you are not required to have public liability or any other type of insurance or license. This is changing quickly though.

All good companies have full insurance (WC, liability, vehicle, professional indemnity etc) as well as whatever type of qualification is required in your area to be an arborist. If you have it, show it off. We have it, and don't make a big deal about bashing customers with it, but I always mention it at the end of the quote and give them a copy with the quote. I don't turn it into a lecture, just something like

'here's your quote, and our arb certificate, business registration, liability and workers comp. Everyone says they're fully insured, but mostly it's just talk. Make sure you get a copy from other companies, and make sure they have workers comp otherwise if anyone is hurt on your property you are liable. Tree work is one of the most dangerous jobs in the country, so it happens often.'

I think it does sway some customers. Some folks just plain don't have the money for quality tree care though.

in terms of positioning, this worked pretty good for me;

http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/211473.htm

Shaun

Good information. I have to really be careful around here with even friendly matter of fact consumer education. I like where you said "Everyone says they are fully insured, but mostly it's just talk. Make sure you get a copy from other companies." That is what I want to tell prospects but a lot of them in my area get their back up for just saying that. They have a cheaper price and it's like they are pissed because they have to pay more to get someone with insurance.

 

[mckeetree]

Better read your Umbrella policy. Most cover only what the underlying policy does.

Looks like that is the case. At least the one I just read. I didn't realize that.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Picking your customers as Jeff said, is key. When ever they tell me they are looking for the cheapest price, I don't even bother or I tell them up front, I will be the most expensive.
A lot of people are willing to take the risk, most know that they should hire the guy with the WC,and all other certs and exp. But in today's economy, with it being so unstable, they are trying to hold onto every dime, so they talk themselves into accepting the risk of hiring a fly by night.
Most of the time they get lucky and nothing happens, those who have it go the other way learn very quickly why they should have hired a pro with WC. Like the other day with the homeless guy. HO had a million dollar home with a view, but hired a homeless guy off the street to trim his palms, in a very unsafe manor. He knew what he was doing was wrong and would have let it go on if I didn't stop it. If that guy was hurt, he would have been in for it, but he took the risk anyhow. This will always happen, no laws will change it. Until everyone can afford it, or they feel good about the future, they will continue to hire the cheapest, WC or not. The only way for us to aviod this issue is to change our client base through marketing and good work. When you have clients who do not necessarily worry about price (within reason), but are more worried about getting the work done safely and correctly, this becomes a none issue, as they expect you to have WC and understand that part of the price is the CYA umbrella.

 

[Kottonwood]

wow I didn't realize there were any states that didn't require at least some level of worker's comp. I complain about the rates like everyone else but at least here it is an even playing field (for the most part). Who the hell would want to climb for someone without worker's comp too? I haven't been in the business for nearly as long as some as you old farts but if there's one thing I've learned it's that if you are gonna make a lifelong career out of this it is not if you get hurt it's when and how bad. There is a reason are rates are so high.

so if one of your climbers drops a saw on a groundman in Texas who pays for it? The employer has no legal responsibility?

 

[Grouchy old man]

so if one of your climbers drops a saw on a groundman in Texas who pays for it? The employer has no legal responsibility?

The employer absolutely is responsible as well as the customer. The groundie's lawyer is going to go after both. If they had insurance they would just refer it to their insurance companies who would pay to the limits of their policies. If the employer is uninsured he has to pay out of his own pocket. If the customer is uninsured he has to pay out of his pocket. In a case like this I could see the groundie becoming the owner of the customer's house, the employer's house and the tree company.

 

[mckeetree]

The employer absolutely is responsible as well as the customer. The groundie's lawyer is going to go after both. If they had insurance they would just refer it to their insurance companies who would pay to the limits of their policies. If the employer is uninsured he has to pay out of his own pocket. If the customer is uninsured he has to pay out of his pocket. In a case like this I could see the groundie becoming the owner of the customer's house, the employer's house and the tree company.

That's the problem. The "employer", and boy do I use that term loosely, rents a single wide. His "company", again we are really using a term loosely here, is worth about $950.00. That is the kind of folks you compete against down here. Looks like the customer would be the one on the hook in that case.

 

[mckeetree]

The employer absolutely is responsible as well as the customer.

And to revisit that...the customer often is the employer. People around here often hire folks that are not actually in business. When you have a group of guys going around knocking on doors and there is no paper trail of ANY of them being in business per se, then who the hell is on first in that deal? There is no defined owner. There was a case last year where a guy got hurt and sued the homeowner. Homeowner said they hired a company called TNT tree. TNT should be responsible. Well, as far as the court was concerned there is no record of a tree service called TNT in business in this area (There was some business cards floating around but that was it). In a deal like that there is no "owner". Owner of what? I don't know for sure how that deal came out.

 

[Grouchy old man]

And to revisit that...the customer often is the employer. People around here often hire folks that are not actually in business. When you have a group of guys going around knocking on doors and there is no paper trail of ANY of them being in business per se, then who the hell is on first in that deal? There is no defined owner. There was a case last year where a guy got hurt and sued the homeowner. Homeowner said they hired a company called TNT tree. TNT should be responsible. Well, as far as the court was concerned there is no record of a tree service called TNT in business in this area (There was some business cards floating around but that was it). In a deal like that there is no "owner". Owner of what? I don't know for sure how that deal came out.

That's why the HO should get a certificate of insurance and workman's comp. If he hires them anyway he's on the hook. In cases where the HO doesn't have insurance it's conceivable that the injured party will never collect enough money to even cover his medical bills because the homeowner just doesn't have any money and his house is mortaged up the wazoo.